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Caleb Newquist: This is Oh My Fraud, a true crime podcast where the most surprising thing is how predictable all of this has become. I'm Caleb Newquist, uh, happy New Year's eve. We [00:00:30] made it. Did we? I think we made it. I mean, we're here. We're talking, listening, whatever. So, um, so I guess we made it. You know, it's too bad that we have to kind of do it all over again. Anyway, how's it going? I hope you've been surviving this time of year as well as you can. It's, you know, usually a mixed mixed bag. It's a mixed bag a lot of the times. Um, Um, anyway. And if you have kids, [00:01:00] you know, you're, you're, you're dealing with that while all the holiday stuff, it's kind of compounding. You know, there's a reason that song says mom and dad can hardly wait for school start again. You know, there's a reason tale as old as schools. Um, today's show is just a recap update of the year. That [00:01:30] was 2025, in Oh My fraud! As you may or may not recall, we started the year with Greg and then we lost him. He he he bowed out after January, but that was a bummer. And we of course, you know, it wasn't a surprise. I knew he wanted to do it, but we carried on. I actually saw him. I just saw Greg.

Caleb Newquist: He did a show here in Denver, uh, his, his comedy show. He did a comedy show with his buddy Adam and his other buddy, Caleb. [00:02:00] Uh, yes. Not me. Someone else. And they did a show here in Denver, and it was great. I had a great time. And, uh, so if if Comedy Church is is coming to a theater near you, a live theater near you, uh, you know, you should check it out. Especially if you're no longer religious. Anyway, uh, yeah, this year we we started with Greg, and then we lost him, and [00:02:30] we carried on and we did 26 episodes. Uh, nine of those were interviews. I thoroughly enjoyed all of those. I enjoyed all the episodes. Uh, interview or not? Uh, some of them. Zach appeared on some of them. He did not. But I'm happy how they all turned out. It was a good year. If you missed one, go back and listen. We're going to Zach is joining me for this one. And so we talk about some updates and um some of our favorite episodes or favorite moments from the last year. So, [00:03:00] yeah, if you're like, what are they talking about? Um, you know, go back and check it out. Also, they just don't get old. I mean, I can I can relisten to them. They they they stand the test of time until they don't.

Caleb Newquist: But for a while, you know, they're going to stand the test of time. Um, last thing I'll mention before we get into it, if you've needed CPE, if you're an accountant and you've been needing CPE, this is [00:03:30] it. This is also it. It's the last day. I mean, not everyone is susceptible to the calendar, I understand. So, you know, California people. I know you're different. So don't, you know, be emailing me about how. Well, we don't really have to, like, I don't care. I don't, okay? Just, you know, for a lot of people, this is the day where they have to be done. So if you're cramming in, you know, 20 episodes of oh my Fraud today, man. Have fun. You know, you're you're in for a you know, you're in for something. I don't know. [00:04:00] You know. Fatigued ears with the buds. You know you'll be sick of the buds or you'll be sick of the ears. I don't know, they all they all wear on you a little different. Have you noticed that the the the, you know, headphones, whatever they are, there's no, like, uh, annoying free headphone. Like, eventually you will get rubbed in a way that is unpleasant. You're like, I gotta take these things out or I gotta take these things off. You just can't wear them all day. It's fucking impossible. [00:04:30] Anyway.

Caleb Newquist: Last minute CPE people. This is last chance. Okay. Oh, one more note. I am still doing limited numbers of, uh, presentations, uh, keynotes, webinars, whatever. Uh, and Greg is still game if you want. Greg, uh, to be a part of that. So if that's something that your firm or your conference [00:05:00] or whatever it is, your little, your little, you know, New Year's soiree, we're not doing New Year's gigs. I say that it's too late. You should have. You know, maybe you book us in a year in advance. The point is, uh, you know, email me. Oh, my. Fraud at earmark CPE. Com and, uh, we can we can talk. We can talk about what you need, and we can talk about what we can do. Okay. All right. So here we go. 2025 coming [00:05:30] to a close. It was a good year. Uh, you know, you know, there's always bad stuff going on in a good year, uh, which I'm not going to get into, but, you know, 2025 was. Could have been worse. I think it could have been worse. I think it could have been far, far worse. So that's something, right? Okay. Here's me and Zack talking about 2025, in the world of my fraud. Enjoy. Zack [00:06:00] is joining me for this recap. Uh, Zack, great to have you on. Um, it was a pretty good year.

Zach: Yeah. Thanks.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Um, the first update I have is is kind of just a little bit of housekeeping, and it was actually an update from one of our first guests of the year. It might have been our first guest of the year, actually. Her name was, uh, Miriam Bear, and she, uh, she was the vice dean at Brooklyn Law School. And, you know, she is [00:06:30] no longer the vice dean at Brooklyn Law School. She is now the dean and president at California Western Law School in San Diego. So, you know, that's just a little career update. We probably didn't have to do that. But she was very nice and, um, and gracious with her time. And we learned a lot from her. And so yeah. So now she's she's got the big chair at a new law school on, on on a different coast.

Zach: So nicer weather.

Caleb Newquist: Oh my god. And, yeah. Did the fires get down to San Diego? You [00:07:00] don't.

Zach: Really. No. Not really. No. There's a couple in, like the the hills around like Temecula sometimes in that area, but in general, not really in San Diego.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Yeah. It is nice there. It is nice there. All right. So that's the update on on, uh, Doctor Bear, I think she's a doctor. She's probably a doctor. She has a she has a JD, so she's a doctor. Anyway, um, here's another one. So the Columbus Zoo episode was a very popular episode. Um, this year, uh, I think it was probably popular because it came out so early in [00:07:30] the year, but lots of people listened to it. I have people in my neighborhood who are like Ohio natives who, uh, listen to this episode because the Columbus Zoo is such a big deal. And, um, the only update really is that I think if I remember right, we, you know, everybody has been sentenced and reported to prison and all that stuff. But something that came out after we released this episode was that the zoo sued three of these executives, uh, to get their to put their houses in foreclosure. [00:08:00] And because, uh, to help pay the restitution and, um. Yeah. So that's, you know, they're they weren't messing around. They're playing hardball. But, uh, the guys they stole, they they, I don't know, stole, misspent. They were just pretty careless. Anyway, the zoo was playing hardball, so that was kind of a that's a that's a minor update. Again. That's that was episode 79. Um, monkey business at the Columbus Zoo. Zach, did you like the zoo episode?

Zach: Yeah, [00:08:30] it was great. It also another lesson that we've talked about, and we covered it multiple times this year that I like, really think is important is just like the importance of investigative journalism and small town journalism, like breaking a story like that. Otherwise these cases would never be solved and like even found out about probably or no one would care about them. And that's something that we've covered multiple times this year. Just how much how important press is and media. Yeah. And yeah.

Caleb Newquist: That was.

Zach: The Columbus.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. That was the Columbus Dispatch. They uh, they were all over that. So, um, and [00:09:00] and the story in the, in the show notes about this update again, Columbus Dispatch. Yeah. Okay. Uh, next update. Oh, this. Okay. So, Zach, you wrote this episode and this was episode. Let's see, episode 82 on Shohei Ohtani. Show Me the Money is the name of the episode. And, uh, Zach is a lifelong Dodgers fan. So this is a very personal story for you. Yeah, but you [00:09:30] followed it. But what was cool, I remember you saying that when you.

Zach: Wrote it was like a shocking thing.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. I remember you saying, though, that when you wrote this episode, uh, you learned stuff that you didn't know and you followed the story.

Zach: Yes. I mean, tons of stuff I had no idea about. Right? Um, like when you actually read the charging document from the DOJ. Yeah. Um, it has so much information in there that I feel like no one just ever decided to cover. I think actually, one ESPN article that I [00:10:00] found had the information in there, but like direct text messages from eBay to the to the bookie.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, yeah.

Zach: Just like. Yeah, just constant text messages. Um, my favorite was.

Caleb Newquist: Frantic, desperate text messages.

Zach: Yeah. And I guess the update we should tell people is that eBay has begun his prison sentence. Where afterwards, he will be deported. But, um, at the time being, he's begun his prison sentence and, um, something that I hate so much. [00:10:30] And I think I've talked to you about this before, but I'll just let our listeners know.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Zach: Tell me, the conspiracy theories around this case drive me insane, because I feel like people just don't want to do basic facts like reporting, investigating, reading about this. You know, I'm not asking you to do your own. The journalists did their own investigation. The DOJ did their own investigation. Just read the report. At least before you try to say that EPA was covering for Shohei. Shohei is the one who did all this gambling. How could he not know? It's all BS, like, you know, obviously they're best friends. Okay, great. Read. Listen to our episode. I think we go [00:11:00] through enough in there, but listen to the phone call he made to the bank interpreting Shohei. Why would he? Why would he ever need to do that for Shohei? Like, you know, to get money pretending he's buying a car? Look at the text messages he sent to his bookie where the bookie's like, it's all right. I know you're just covering for your guy. And he's like, no, this was all me.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. And yeah.

Zach: You could be like, oh, that's. He's just already thinking about covering for him or something. You could say that. But it's like, I'm sorry. Eep looks guilty in every sense, from setting up the bank accounts originally in his name, [00:11:30] like in, like with his secret, like, passcodes and stuff in Arizona when it was spring training. Every way you look at this case, it just seems like there's one man and one man responsible for it. And. Yeah, so it just drives me a little crazy. Um, the the conspiracy theories that it's really Shohei.

Caleb Newquist: So I was listening to a couple people talk about conspiracy theories the other day, and there is something about. There is there is something going on in the culture where it's just like people will read one [00:12:00] story, not investigate anything, not investigate it further, and just be like, well, that's what I heard. And so that must be the truth, right? Like, yeah, that's essentially that's essentially what the majority of people are doing now. And um, and yeah. And that it helps, it helps like, uh, bad information, uh, just, uh, travel.

Zach: And they're just fun. I understand, like, I I'll tell you one right now that I've never investigated and it's like really fun to believe it's true, but I have no idea. It's the whole. Did [00:12:30] Michael Jordan quit basketball for two years to play baseball, or was that his punishment because he got caught gambling and they're like, you have to leave. That's a really big one. It's really famous. It's really fun to pretend like, oh, why would he retire at the height of his prowess and winning championships and just leave to go play baseball? Was it really for his dad, or was it really because David Stern, the commissioner of the NBA back then, was like, you have to get out of here. This is like your punishment. But we don't want to tarnish the NBA by saying, we caught you gambling. So we're just going to you're going to quietly leave for a couple of years, right?

Caleb Newquist: And is there any evidence that any [00:13:00] of that is true.

Zach: But I don't think there's any actual evidence of this at all. Yeah. It's fun to think it's. Yeah, it's fun. That's why people like.

Caleb Newquist: It's kind of fun. Yeah. But yeah, when you think about it, when you think about it, it's like his dad was murdered. In what year? What year was that?

Zach: I think right before then. Right.

Caleb Newquist: It was right before. So, like, it's Occam's razor, right? That's the thing where it's like, the simplest explanation is usually the truth. Yeah, I like Michael Jordan. Is a is a is a super. He's larger than life. Right. And [00:13:30] so the fact that, you know, that it would be that he would retire from basketball at the peak of his, um, success is kind of crazy, but he's also a human being. And his dad was murdered. And dude might have just been fucking sad and wanted not to play basketball for a while.

Zach: Well, it's funny, because I think what you just said actually also could drive to it, though I think his competitiveness also made him think, like, I could go play professional baseball because he's like so he [00:14:00] thinks so highly of himself. He's like, oh, I'll just go to baseball and be great at that. And yeah, you know, he made the minors was never good enough to like, really do anything but. Right.

Caleb Newquist: No, I mean.

Zach: Like, that could be his ego. Could have been also the reason he did that. Like, yeah, I'm sure tremendous grief. But also like the ego like for sure.

Caleb Newquist: I mean, I watched I watched The Last Dance. Michael Jordan isn't short on confidence like he's, he's he thinks he can do pretty much anything. And he to be fair, he's done quite a lot. So. So anyway, um, [00:14:30] for what it's worth, for anyone interested, uh, uh, is in prison. He is at Allenwood in Pennsylvania. If if you care if those are things you're interested in. Um, the other update on this story that is kind of interesting and that Zach, that, uh, this is kind of in your, uh, in your wheelhouse. Is that a, a series is in development by stars. Stars is producing a series, uh, about this particular story. Um, [00:15:00] and, uh, Lionsgate TV is producing it. So, uh, there's there's really not a ton of details out about it, but it's supposedly going to center around IP and Shohei and their relationship because they had a long relationship. Um, but I haven't been able to find anything else about this show. Maybe I have you heard anything else about this show?

Zach: No, I think it's in development right now. Like eventually it's, you know, these shows go from nothing to everything or just get shelved. Basically, it's like one day, all of a sudden it'll be shooting next week or you [00:15:30] just never hear from it, ever.

Caleb Newquist: So, you know, what's funny is like it like the It was like two months after it was either either sentenced or convicted or pleaded guilty or whatever, where The Hollywood Reporter already has like, oh, it's it's in development. Like it's it was happening so fast. And then there was like no news for like a year and then it finally comes out. It's like, oh, it's Lionsgate TV and it stars and that's but there's no [00:16:00] cast, there's no nothing. There's no script like it's just like. But anyway. So yeah, if you want uh, the, uh, the, the, the melodrama, uh, of this particular story to be on your small screen. Uh, yeah. Maybe soon we'll see.

Zach: And then, uh, if you want to cover, just like, you know, some lessons from this one that are classic can show up all the time.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, my God.

Zach: Internal controls for bank accounts and stuff. This one. Don't let your assistant set up your account for you. Where his account didn't have access to it, his business manager didn't [00:16:30] have access to it. The only person who had access to it was eBay. And I guess that's a good transition to to another episode that we did.

Caleb Newquist: Before you transition though, the other. But there's, there's a, there's a big lesson that you're getting. Do you know, do you know what the big lesson is?

Zach: Um. Don't gamble.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Don't gamble. Jesus Christ, don't gamble.

Zach: We've covered other issues with that with the Jags employee and FanDuel. So yeah I would agree that gambling is going to lead to you know it's one of the most addictive um things [00:17:00] you could do. And it's very very very very very hard to break. And it devastates like every aspect of your life.

Caleb Newquist: So let me so you're, you're really into sports. I am not um, I, I, I'm a casual sports observer. Um, but you watch a lot of sports. I mean, do you bet on games at all, or do you just watch for the, like, the competition or to root on your teams or, like so.

Zach: So yeah, if I'm in Vegas, I might place a couple bets. Sure. I'm still in [00:17:30] California. So actually FanDuel and, um. Draftkings is still illegal here, so I'm actually not able. Yeah, I'm actually not able to use them for betting. Um, okay. There's a couple other, like, random ones, like, oh, it's fantasy sports. So you could kind of use the bet, but, um, most, most even online gambling is legal for sports and Vegas. I'll place a wager. Do nothing. You know, nothing major. I'll do like, you know, usually I'll only on teams I care about to betting on, like, random games. Um, and then, uh. Yeah, that's about it. Yeah. I will say, uh, yeah, if you want to [00:18:00] talk about the change, I think we covered this actually a little bit in the Shohei episode. We go into the history of like, why gambling has become so much more prevalent after a Supreme Court decision. But, um, it is crazy how every like ESPN game, every other thing has like a spread on it now. Easy to see the spread the the favorite.

Caleb Newquist: Part of their coverage.

Zach: Yeah, exactly.

Caleb Newquist: I think I think that's what's nuts is like every so it's still football season. We're coming to the end of the NFL season. Um and virtually on every like pregame or [00:18:30] whatever. There's always that one guy that they bring in who kind of looks like he's from Jersey or Philly or something. He's wearing a three piece suit and has no neck, and he talks about and he talks about the lines on the games, and he talks about his favorite picks. And it is so kind of surreal that that gambling is so infused within sports. And I think, I mean, I don't I was talking about [00:19:00] this with some friends the other day, and it really I don't think I'm overstating it, but gambling is kind of ruining sports in a way. Like in the sense that it is. It has become it has become such a, uh, visible factor in virtually every sport that you're you're it's all it's just so in your face and you're just like, can't we just watch some [00:19:30] professional athletes do what they do really, really well? Like kind of, again, like Michael Jordan superhuman. Kind of. And just enjoy that for what it is. No, we have to. We have to gamble. You know, this is America. Everything is, you know, to the to the nth degree. Everything has to be extreme. And it's it's I don't know, it kind of makes it shittier.

Zach: Yeah. And watch out now with the one big beautiful bill they lowered how much you're allowed to deduct from gambling [00:20:00] losses. So now you have to pay your gambling wins but your losses you can't deduct at the same rate. So if you lose you're gonna have to even pay more. You can't even, like, write that off as losses.

Caleb Newquist: Untold lives to be ruined, Zach. Untold.

Zach: I will say one of the funniest clips I've seen this year, which anyone could go Google this on YouTube right now was earlier this year. A couple months ago, there was a basketball gambling story that broke, and one of the people who arrested was Chauncey Billups, the head coach of the Portland Trail Blazers.

Caleb Newquist: And he was the guy.

Zach: Yeah, he was a player for a while. And when they were breaking the story they [00:20:30] had on the like, ESPN, Bet or whatever, like on the side of the ticker and like it was like going through like lines and they slowly removed it. It was like it was taken away in the coverage and it was incredible. It's an incredible clip.

Caleb Newquist: Um.

Zach: Taking away from the ticker. And it just gets dropped and like.

Caleb Newquist: That's.

Zach: Amazing. And then, um, another thing I was going to say that you just mentioned about how it's overtaking everything. It's like there's danger in it, too. A lot of people think it's a ticking time bomb before something really bad happens. I mean, players get death threats for like missing free throws for not covering lines for like, you know, like whatever it is. And people are losing their [00:21:00] entire life savings, like, you know, devastating. And like, who knows what the fans are going to do or like a, you know, someone who lost everything and is going to take it out on something. So, uh, you know, we're see, hopefully nothing like that ever happens, but people are afraid of it already. And, you know, like I said, death. Tons of people already getting death threats on it. Of course.

Caleb Newquist: That's nuts.

Zach: The death.

Caleb Newquist: If I had heard about.

Zach: Yeah, yeah, tons of them obviously. I guess players always have kind of gotten that, even for like missing a kick when it's not on a bet, like, you know, a big playoff game or something. But, uh, yeah, apparently it's pretty bad with the gambling now.

Caleb Newquist: Well, and so in [00:21:30] at least for 2026, with the World Cup being in North America, it's going to be kind of bonkers.

Zach: It's oh yeah.

Caleb Newquist: I mean, we'll.

Zach: See the Olympics after.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. All right, all right.

Zach: So I was gonna say the transition to another episode that we covered, because we're talking about internal controls and having one person in charge of everything. And I think our biggest episode of the year was an interview with Alanis Morissette's and a couple other celebrities. Um, what would you call him?

Caleb Newquist: Uh, he's a business manager.

Zach: Business manager?

Caleb Newquist: Jonathan [00:22:00] Todd Schwartz. Yeah.

Zach: So, yeah, if you want to go give us a recap.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. So, Jonathan, um, was the business manager for Alanis Morissette. Uh, he took $7 million of hers and some change from her and a couple other clients. Um, he was he had he he was a, you know, if you look into Jonathan's past, he had a lot of big names, like he [00:22:30] managed Beyonce for a while, Gwyneth Paltrow like some other people who have gone on to be even like bigger than they were then, which is kind of crazy to think about. But when you think about Beyoncé and Gwyneth Paltrow, like what they do now compared to what they did, you know, 15 years ago is kind of nuts. Um, but nevertheless, the, you know, the Alanis thing was a big deal. Um, you know, anytime there's, uh, a business manager or, or someone in the, in the inner [00:23:00] circle of a celebrity, uh, a well-known celebrity, uh, stealing money, that's always a big story. And Jonathan was gracious enough to talk to us about his experience and his experience in prison and, uh, and what he's doing now. Um, but that was our most popular episode this year. And it was episode episode 81. Featured Jonathan Todd Schwartz. And so yeah, if you haven't if you haven't listened to that, you should go listen to it, because it's it's a good one.

Zach: Um, [00:23:30] and you know, that also connects because we were just talking about gambling addictions and he had a drug addiction and.

Caleb Newquist: Terrible, terrible gambling addiction.

Zach: And gambling. Exactly.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, yeah, drug and gambling addiction. And he talks and he talks a lot about it. So, um. Yeah. So you're right. That was the, uh, an appropriate segue.

Zach: Yeah. And, you know, um, it also just I'll just mention, like, I think it's so popular because everyone loves hearing from the person who committed the crime, why they committed the crime, how they committed the crime. And, you [00:24:00] know, that's our second one we've had we also talked to Nathan Mueller. Yeah. You and Greg talked him. I thought that was a great episode as well from a year or two before that. And we're trying to get more. If anyone knows a fraudster or just give me the crime, serve their time wants to talk about it for us, please reach out. We would love to talk to them.

Caleb Newquist: We'd love to.

Zach: Talk to them. Always interesting and fun episodes. So hopefully we have more of those in the future as well.

Caleb Newquist: Um, okay. Couple of, um, 111 other update that I came across. I don't know if I told [00:24:30] you about this one, but, um, the this this is in regards to Aussie media, which was episode 89 and, uh, Stanford Financial, which is episode 54. So it's a that wasn't even from this past year. That was from the year before. But in those two cases, um, the SEC had ongoing litigation in both of those cases. In the case of Aussie, um, as listeners know, uh, to that, listeners of that episode know, uh, Carlos Watson was [00:25:00] ultimately pardoned by President Trump and his the, the amount uh, his his restitution was expunged, which means he doesn't have to pay it. Um, and the SEC, just a few months ago decided they were not going to pursue, uh, further civil litigation in that case. So that's that's a little update there. And the same, uh, same goes for the Stanford Financial, which is that Stanford case is it goes back to 2009, 2010. [00:25:30] Like, I mean, it's an old case. And they, they're, they've been they've been trying to get money for victims for a long time. And they're still trying to do it. Uh, but that is one thing. That is one loose end from that case that is no longer loose. They they tied it up by saying, hey, we're, we're we're waving the white flag. So that's um. Yeah. Ozzie and Stanford Financial. There you go.

Zach: Cool. I didn't know that one.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it was it's pretty that I mean, it's [00:26:00] pretty minor update. You know it that doesn't that doesn't grab the headlines like the like like the impersonation of a YouTube executive or.

Zach: Yeah, yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Whatever. Anyway, um, this updates kind of fun. I got an email from a listener, Um, several months ago. And this was a this was after, uh, this is in relation to episode 86 about first NBC Bank. So that was the bank in New Orleans, um, where uh, executives, [00:26:30] uh, particularly the CEO, uh, was, um, was charged and convicted of fraud. And if you go back, if you if you listen to that episode, you'll notice it was it was from a while ago. I don't remember exactly the time frame, but, uh, a reader, uh, emailed me and said, hey, um, just wanted to share a local rumor this was somebody that was based in the New Orleans area, and he said, hey, wanted to just let you know the [00:27:00] local rumor, uh, this local rumor kind of provides some context. And he said, you know, this this investigation started in 2016, but it didn't wrap until 2023. So that's like a long time. Like some of these cases are like they're from from the time something is known that has happened to the time that someone is pleading guilty and sentence can be can be a very short window of time, you know, a year, maybe even less than that. In the case of first NBC Bank, we're talking like seven years. Um, and, [00:27:30] you know, if you're a defendant in one of those cases, I mean, that's a lot.

Caleb Newquist: I, I don't have the kind of resources to pay those kinds of legal bills. If you're a CEO of a bank, maybe you do, but it's still a lot of money, right? Well, this reader told us that, uh, the rumor that had been going around the New Orleans area was that first NBC had, like, this massive directors and officers insurance policy. Um, and so if you're not familiar, it's commonly known as no insurance. Dental [00:28:00] insurance is something that, uh, businesses, corporations carry for their directors and officers in case they get in trouble. And it helps them with things like legal bills. And so This. It was this large. No insurance policy. It was rumored that allowed Ashton Ryan, the CEO of first NBC Bank, to draw out this, uh, this to to make for a very long, uh, slow [00:28:30] moving legal process. So and, you know, he eventually was sentenced to prison. He's a pretty old guy. Um, but as far as I know, he is. He he is in I think he's in an infirmary, like, he's in a he's in a jail where it's more of a hospital, but, uh, um, but nevertheless, um, he did put it off for quite a while. And so that was, that was a bit of, you know, rumor. Like, I haven't been able to verify this, for what it's worth. [00:29:00] Um, it was just something that somebody sent.

Zach: In, and I thought that.

Caleb Newquist: Was interesting.

Zach: Yeah. It's fun.

Caleb Newquist: Anyway, that story, uh, I don't know if I don't know what the lessons are of that story other than, uh, you know, um, it was it was people trying to do good in the wake of Katrina and, uh, maybe just got a little caught up in, you know, caught up in their success a little bit, and it got out of hand.

Zach: Yeah. Don't take the personal loans for for business [00:29:30] thing or don't give, don't give your company, like, don't use company loans for personal expenses. I don't know, whatever it was.

Caleb Newquist: It's a it's a pretty good rule of thumb. I don't know. It's it's funny I don't know if anyone expects us to remember these stories in the level of detail, detail that we record them, but, uh, that's not possible. No, my friends, it's not possible. So if we're vague on the details, that's why also, uh, human, you know, we have we have we have limitations. Okay, uh, final update, uh, [00:30:00] for the 2025 that I found was in relation to our guest from episode, I think 91. Yes. Episode 91, Jonathan Walton. He was the guy who was a victim of fraud, who turned around and became a vigilante and started investigating fraud. And he had a background in TV and he had background in journalism, and he was a great guest. He was plugging a book at the time. Um, and but his his podcast is [00:30:30] Queen of the con, and it was a very popular podcast. Uh, but it was about his search for justice in relation to the person who took, I don't know, I don't remember how much money she took from him, but it was a lot of money. Uh, you know, for him, $100,000, 75,000, whatever it was.

Zach: Anyway, I think like 80 or 100.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, yeah, something like that. Anyway. And her name was Marianne Smith or mayors, uh, [00:31:00] how Jonathan knew her, uh, Mayor Smith. And she was sentenced in the UK to four years in prison for a scam that she had been running over there and the Northern Ireland. This is in Northern Ireland, the Northern Ireland authorities. Jonathan basically like tipped them off. He's like, hey, you're looking for her. She's here. Um, and long story short, you know, she was she was dealing with her legal troubles in the US, [00:31:30] but eventually she was extradited to northern Northern Ireland, where she, you know, faced, um, uh, the charges that, uh, of the of the frauds that she was committing there. Well, anyway, long story short, she was convicted and she was sentenced to four years in prison. And I found this Guardian article, uh, featuring Jonathan, who was, you know, he was disappointed at four years and four years isn't nothing, you know, four years from now, you know who's not going to be president, hopefully. [00:32:00] I mean, that's I mean, it's it's a while. Right? So, so what I'm saying is four years isn't nothing. But I think, Jonathan, if you read the Guardian article and again, it's in the show notes, his point is like, look, this is a lifelong fraudster. This is someone who is not going to change. This is someone who has victimized countless people. And this sentence is inadequate, uh, for this person. And, um, all [00:32:30] that and all that I think is probably fair. But in the case of the courts in Northern Ireland, they couldn't consider the crimes in the US when sentencing her. And so hence you end up with kind of a, a kind of a, a light sentence in, in, in the, in the, in the, in comparison to maybe all the crimes that she's done, uh, everywhere.

Zach: Yeah. I think, I think you talked about in our episode, but I think her UK crimes were like mortgage fraud or something [00:33:00] like that or. Yep. Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Zach: Something with real estate, right. Um, you know what I'd be interested in? I dunno if that article talks about it, but on our show he said that he would love to. He said he was going to go fly there to be there for the trial. I don't know if it was open to the public if he ended up going there for it actually, or just, you know, watched it or heard about it after. I would be interested to see if he actually flew there to be at the trial.

Caleb Newquist: It's interesting because you definitely get the sense because this was covered by the Guardian. Um.

Zach: You wonder if they just reached out or if they talked to him in [00:33:30] person.

Caleb Newquist: I mean, it says US news, but it is, you know, it is a UK based, uh, publication. Um, I don't know, you kind of you kind of get the, the sense that he was maybe there.

Zach: He told us he wanted to go, but I don't know who knows what life events allowed it or not anyway.

Caleb Newquist: But um, but that's a fun episode and like, and Jonathan was great to talk to. He was a fun guy. And, um, so. Yeah. Episode 91, if you if you want a good time listening to me and Jonathan. Uh, that was [00:34:00] that was a hoot. That's the.

Zach: Word. And if you're interested in, uh, red flags or fraudsters. Go pick up his book.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, pick up his book. Absolutely. So here's an update on Australia's greatest con man. That was episode 84. Episode 84, Australia's greatest con man. In that story, there was a there was a, there was a, uh, how should we put it? There was a [00:34:30] ghost written autobiography by our, uh, by our perpetrator, Johann Friedrich Hohenberger. And I got a copy of that book. Oh, yeah, I yeah, I was able to track down, uh, the book and, um, it used to be on my desk here, and now it no longer is, so I don't know exactly where it went, but nevertheless, I found it at a rare book store in Maryland, of all places. Um, and [00:35:00] it's in excellent condition. And, um, it was it was one of those things where, I don't know, I was just curious if there were if this book could even be found anywhere. And sure enough, it came up. It came up at this, uh, Maryland rare book store. And I emailed the person about it because they they didn't have a picture of it on their website. And they said, oh, if you want to see pictures for certain copy or certain titles, you have to email us and just let us know. So I emailed them and [00:35:30] I said, uh, hey, uh, I see you have this book.

Caleb Newquist: Uh, can you email me, you know, pictures? And they responded a day or two later. And, uh, I said, and I got the email and I looked at it, I'm like, oh, sure enough, they have it, you know. And, um, I don't know what was going on at the time, but I some time went by a month or two and, uh, I, you know, the, the memory of me asking about that book flashed through my mind. I'm like, oh, they have it. [00:36:00] Uh, I guess if they still have it, I'll. I should buy it. And, uh, I go back and I said to the person, I said, hey, I just placed the order for this. Um, sorry. You know, it's been a little bit, but, um, uh, it's been 2 or 3 months, and so sorry it took me so long to get back to you. And the person's, like, look, in the rare books business, this was actually fast. So, like, these are the kinds of things like when there's one copy of a very strange, obscure [00:36:30] book from Australia, you know, that's just the way things go. And I thought that was a little bit amusing. Um.

Zach: Yeah, that is fine.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. It's fine. Uh, what else? You got some questions for me, Zach? Is that.

Zach: Yeah. I mean, I feel like, uh, you know, we we went through a couple of the lessons that we learned, like, through individual episodes, and I feel like there's some overarching ones that, you know, you've heard us talk about it, I don't know, countless times or Caleb, I'm not on many of these, but I feel like it's just worth going through them again. Just to A recap [00:37:00] of some classic, uh. Mistakes people make. Some classic things that like why they might commit fraud and, um. Yeah, we could connect it to some episodes. So I guess, like, we want to start with, uh, the fraud triangle, right? Sure. We could go through, uh, I don't know how many times we've talked about it, but we talked about pressure, opportunity, rationalization.

Caleb Newquist: Yep.

Zach: I guess, um, I'm trying to think what might be the best one to talk about for that. There's so many, you know, we connected to the the Aussie one, we connected to Australia's greatest con man if we want. [00:37:30] Um.

Caleb Newquist: I mean, I think rationalization rationalization tends to be the most interesting because you're talking about stories that people are telling themselves.

Zach: Oh, you know what? And so the psychology of that for a second, I'm gonna interrupt for a second, because I think I could connect this to a good one that actually has some updates as well. Okay. Um, so let's connect this to the Spotify. It was a two part episode, but half of it we covered a man who, um, was faking streams for Spotify.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, right.

Zach: So that's an easy one to [00:38:00] rationalize because like, well, who am I stealing from? It's like a big company. Like and same with the guy who sold from the the Google from.

Caleb Newquist: Google and Facebook.

Zach: Facebook. But, um, an update for the Spotify one was, uh, I have a couple funny updates is one is it's either Drake suing someone or Drake getting sued for like, bot plays. Like, I think he's like claiming a bunch of songs or sued like that, or like I think it was the Kendrick Lamar thing. So Kendrick Lamar, I'm not going to get into rap beef right now, but him and Drake had a very famous rap beef. And I think Drake's lawsuit, he claims that [00:38:30] a bunch of Kendrick Lamar's streams on Not Like Us was, uh, through bots and through fake streams or whatever to make it seem like a bigger song than it was. Yeah, and that's like filed in a lawsuit. And there was another lawsuit filed as well for for fake streams. So that's a problem. That's not going away. Ai. Yeah, there's there's a big there's a big controversy with a song that used an AI voice and Spotify took it down. That was because it was based off of someone else's voice. Spotify has no problem if it's AI, if you let them know it is if it's like a random voice. But since this was like based on an actual [00:39:00] person, it like invented a whole more legal problems and legal questions.

Zach: So that one was paused. Oh, if you want, even I could give you more updates sooner. The AI app that I use to make those. Oh my fraud songs that you haven't listened to it. They just, um, received, I think it was hundreds of millions of dollars in investment round as well as they signed deals with. We're going to get this wrong. So we'll put the link in so everyone knows it. Right. It's either Universal or Warners. They sign like deals with two big record companies to like not be sued by [00:39:30] them and like use it for the training and other stuff like them. So they made like, yeah, so AI music is coming, it's not going anywhere. And you can't put the genie back in the bottle, as they say. No kidding. And, uh, anyway, we got a little off track with the rationalization, with the rationalization. But, um, I just think, like, yeah, people, if you're stealing from anyone, if you think it's like a big corporation, if you think like, who am I really stealing from? It's probably easier than if you're stealing from a mom and pop place.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, yeah.

Zach: 100 people aren't immune from that either, though.

Caleb Newquist: So no.

Zach: People rationalize that as well. [00:40:00] But, um, you know, like, as Kelly's from Pope said, everyone has a number. I feel like everyone has like a company that they would feel more comfortable with it to like, yeah, like, I hate like Amazon, Elon Musk, whatever it is. Like someone's going to feel like, oh, I'm stealing from Tesla. Okay, that's fine. I'm stealing. Like, yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Who's really being harmed?

Zach: Yeah, exactly.

Caleb Newquist: Absolutely. Yeah. You know, in those in those instances, the rationalization is pretty easy because it feels like it's like I'm I'm like Robin Hood. I'm, I'm, I'm taking from the [00:40:30] haves and giving to the have nots. Like, those are the kinds of things that in those cases like yeah, that that leap is, is, is pretty easy. I think in the case of like Carlos Watson and OZY media, who again, to be uh, uh, to, to be fair, has been pardoned by President Trump, uh, of his crimes that he was convicted of in a court of law. But Carlos Watson was really, you know, that was a [00:41:00] guy running a business and was he just was doing whatever it took to make that business a success. And it just spilled over into breaking the law again that he was later pardoned for. All I'm saying is, dude must have been the mental gymnastics that guy must have been going through in order to rationalize what he was doing. Uh, impressive. Yeah, I'd say.

Zach: Or.

Caleb Newquist: Or or or just weird. Yeah. [00:41:30]

Zach: Strange.

Caleb Newquist: Weird and impressive. So, yeah. Rationalization, I mean, opportunity, I don't know, opportunity is kind of like. Yeah, it seems like frauds everywhere. Like there's PPP fraud. You know, we we haven't done a story on PPP fraud in a long time. And, um, but, uh, but, yeah, you know, that those opportunities, they come up.

Zach: They fall into people's laps, almost.

Caleb Newquist: They fall into people's laps. Exactly. Cool.

Zach: What else? Uh, a couple. Oh, yeah, a couple other things. Um, so, you know, I feel like if we're going to talk about the fraud triangle, I feel [00:42:00] like the easiest one to fix would be the opportunity for, like, a company, like we just said, right? Like, it's like.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, yeah.

Zach: Don't install something. We talked about this with a couple of the episodes, like internal, the lack of companies that have no internal controls or like the minimum internal controls necessary to stop some of these crimes is insane. Like, we just talked about the Google and Facebook one. Yeah, because they were able to fake invoices and no one double checked like the company was going to the right bank account. Know like, basic things. Uh, you know, Shohei being robbed, uh, Alanis Morissette, like, all these people. [00:42:30] Like giving one person access to everything. No one double checking things. Just basic, basic internal controls are just missing from multiple these companies. Um, and that allows the opportunity because it doesn't take much if you don't, if no one's going to check what you're doing. Uh, same with yellow fraud. Uh, you know, being able to just give.

Caleb Newquist: Your.

Zach: Personal expenses for all these computers and, like, you know, no one's. Hundreds of thousands or millions. Sorry. It's like 30 million. Whatever the number was. Yeah. Insane. Insane amount of money that no one's checking because they're all under $10,000 [00:43:00] purchases. Even if they're daily. 10,000, like, you know, 9990, they weren't quite that bad. But, like, she could have hypothetically done, you know, daily purchases under, like, $10,000, and no one's bothering to check that because that's the rule.

Caleb Newquist: Well, and I think, you know, Omri who was our he Omri.

Zach: Our guest from.

Caleb Newquist: From our. Yeah. Ceo and co-founder of our our sponsor roundtable. Um, in our conversation with him, which was in the middle of the year, you know, he said something that he's like a procurement process probably solves that problem. [00:43:30] And that's probably right. Um, procurement, if again, if that's, you know, a $4 word for you, procurement is basically just a purchasing department, right? Like your own your own department. Like if you need stuff that is, um, you know, Whatever it is, supplies of any kind. You just don't get to buy that stuff yourself. You know, like in larger organizations, you have a whole department of people who do that [00:44:00] stuff for you. So, um, in the case of Yale, uh, you had an administrator, uh, within the finance function that was that was making these purchases, which, you know, for Yale Medical School, I don't I don't know, that seems kind of weird, but also and also.

Zach: There's but also just the amount the amount.

Caleb Newquist: Is.

Zach: Crazy. That'd be like $40 million. Should replace every computer at that entire school. Yeah. You think? Not just the medical school like all of Yale?

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. [00:44:30] Yeah. Um, but also, we're talking about a school that has. I don't even know the size of the burned out.

Zach: Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. The endowment is in the multi-billions.

Zach: We might have talked about in the episode. I don't remember, but. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure an insane amount.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Again, not a sympathetic victim, right? Yeah. But that doesn't mean Rationalization. Yeah. That doesn't mean you should steal $40 million worth of computers and sell them on the black market. Um, anyway.

Zach: So then one final thought that we didn't really quite cover case [00:45:00] specific to it in this year. Uh, 2025, 2026, I would still be very, very wary of crypto and whatever you're investing in, just. Yes, I guess this isn't technically financial advice, but just, you know, yeah, be super suspicious if it involves crypto.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. This is not this is not, uh, we are not we are not in the business of giving financial advice. But, uh, if if if crypto is something that you are wondering about, maybe think twice, like maybe don't. Um, yeah. It [00:45:30] is funny that we didn't really get none of our stories had a crypto element to them, but I think it's kind of in the same. I don't know if you feel this way, but if it's it's kind of in the same spirit of the gambling like crypto kind of has this hype around it and visibility around it. Or at least it did. I think it's less so now, but it is still something that's out there, um, that people, um, [00:46:00] they just thought that they could somehow, you know, make a lot of money very, very quickly.

Zach: Exactly. I was going to say, yeah, get rich quick type of thing.

Caleb Newquist: And they and and you just can't, you know, it just doesn't work that way. And if you and if you have gotten rich quickly off of crypto, then fucking congrats like you're the one in, you know, 1 million people that manage.

Zach: To I mean, if we're going to piss people off who are into crypto, but is crypto not just one giant [00:46:30] Ponzi scheme a little bit, you know, uh, just.

Caleb Newquist: Asking questions.

Zach: Just asking, you know, like, you have to get people to invest and think it's worth more for your value to money to go up, especially when it's not getting used as currency. And then if it's just getting used to store as a place to store wealth, then why why is he going up? Like, you know, I guess, you know, it's not becoming more scarce. It's not like a gold. Like there's not like a finite resource. I know bitcoin. Eventually it will run out of my whatever. I'm not going to get into all the specifics.

Caleb Newquist: But yeah, I don't want to talk about the mechanics because then we're going to get people emailing us correcting us. But the thing that made me think of was [00:47:00] in terms of like whether or not, despite what you think about crypto, like we are kind of in this age of grift right now. And it it is, it is, it is anchors to me that there are some of these graphs are just longer lasting than others. I was listening to a conversation about this the other day, and that's why I thought of it. But like supplements, like at least if you get if you if you know crypto, if you invest in crypto, is there any intrinsic value? [00:47:30] Arguably, no. There's plenty of people out there that will say no, there is no intrinsic value. But if you get if you if you put your money into supplements, if you're buying supplements from Joe Rogan, he'll send you the supplements. Yeah. But it's but it's but it's just a it's still a grift, you know, it's it's it's something that is, uh, uh, of dubious, um, origins and, and, and, uh, effectiveness and usefulness and, and yet people are getting [00:48:00] very, very rich off of these things. So, uh, I don't know what the next one will be. Uh, maybe AI like.

Zach: I don't.

Caleb Newquist: Know.

Zach: I mean.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, we'll we'll see. We'll maybe we'll maybe we'll have some more AI stories in the new year. But anyway, uh, those are our updates. Those are our little, uh, you know, detours from those updates, and and we circle back. Fine. I think we come back to the. We don't get too lost. We don't go too far off track. Dewey. Zach.

Zach: Well, you know, the same type of like like we just said, the same type of frauds are going to [00:48:30] keep on happening. We're going to keep on covering them because there's there's an unlimited amount of them, you know, um, Ponzi schemes, embezzlement, uh, wire fraud. Like, we're all just, you know, the closets are gonna. Classics are just gonna constantly get covered because people are going to constantly fall for them and commit those crimes.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. So anyway, don't be one of those people, please.

Zach: You're smarter. You listen to the show, you're smarter.

Caleb Newquist: You listen to the show. Yeah. And, you know, tell tell your friends. So then they're smarter anyway. Um. Well. Thanks, Zach. Thanks for talking.

Zach: Yeah, [00:49:00] great.

Caleb Newquist: About the recap talk. Talking, talking some updates. All right, that was me and Zach. Uh, hope you enjoyed that. We enjoyed it. Had some laughs. Uh, looking forward to a new year with some more laughs and some more fraud stories and some more interviews. And, I don't know, we'll take it as it comes. And that is it for this episode. And remember, if your New Year's [00:49:30] resolution is to improve your internal controls, try to make it through February. Okay, February. Not hard. Probably will save you some grief. Try to make it two months. If you have questions, comments or suggestions for stories, drop me a line at Oh My Fraud at TV.com. Oh My Fraud is created, written, produced and hosted by me. Caleb Newquist Zach Frank is my co-producer, audio engineer, and music supervisor. Laura Hobbs designed our logo [00:50:00] rate review and subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you listen on earmark to earn the CPE, this is it today, is it? And then it starts all over. So, I don't know. I feel like I've browbeat you enough at the top of the show, so I'll just leave it at that. Okay? I know it's enough. It's enough already. Caleb. Join us next time for more avarice, swindlers and scams from stories that will make you say, oh my fraud.