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Caleb Newquist: This is a fraud, a true crime podcast where the American dream is alive and well. I'm Caleb Newquist. Hey, how's it going? Uh, today [00:00:30] we are doing another Oh My fraud at the movies episode. And you're like, oh, you just did one. What about the producers? And like, maybe you're not saying that, but in my, in, you know, I feel like, oh, it hasn't been long enough. I mean, it doesn't matter. I don't know. I'm probably overthinking it. Maybe I'm over caffeinated. The point is, I had a surgery recently. Uh, don't worry, I'm fine. Um, minor. Um, and I'm on the mend. But you know it. You know, it kind of took me off my feet for a few [00:01:00] days, so I, you know, we're doing an easy one, which just involves me and Zach talking and, um, so yeah. And today we are discussing the film The Polka King from 2017. And, uh, yeah, let's get into it. But first, you know, if you have comments, questions, or if you see a good story that you want us to mention or even for an episode, uh, you know, sometimes somebody sends us a real good story. We're like, let's make an episode of that. Uh, [00:01:30] if you, if you have something in mind, send it our way. Oh, my fraud at earmark cpe.com. And also, please rate the show wherever you get the podcast, Apple, Spotify, etc.. Um, you know, it helps other people find the show. All right. Okay, so enough with the pleasantries. Here's Zach and I talking about the Polka king. All [00:02:00] right. Zach, how you doing?

Zach Frank: I'm doing all right. How about yourself?

Caleb Newquist: I'm doing all right. You know, a little, a little, a little tender. But I'm all right. I'll. I'll. I'll live. Um, anyway, so the movie let me just let me just set this up. Here's, here's the logline, uh, for the Polka King driven by the American dream, a local Pennsylvania polka legend develops [00:02:30] a wildly unorthodox and illegal get rich quick scheme that shocks his loyal fans and lands him in federal prison.

Zach Frank: And just to establish this up front, The Polka King is based on the real life story of Jan Lavon. He's a real person. So just as we go through this movie, we're gonna get into what actually happened versus, you know, where the movie might take some liberties. And we're trying to point out which is which, but, um, yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Uh, the movie stars Jack black as the main character, Jan Lavon. His wife is played by [00:03:00] Jenny Slate. Her name is Marla. Jason Schwartzman plays Jan's best friend, Mickey Stutz, and Jacki Weaver plays Barb, Jan's mother in law. And there's a few other fun people in there. J.b. Smoove, Vanessa Bayer, and Willie Garson. Uh, who, uh, if you don't know Willie Garson, he was on sex and the city. Uh, and he's he's sadly no longer alive. But anyway, they all they all have small parts in the movie as well. Vanessa Bayer really [00:03:30] does ham it up in a, in a fun way, but we'll get to that in a minute. Um, a few more details about the movie. First, this movie was written and directed by Maya Forbes. It was also it was co-written with her husband, Wallace Wolodarsky. Uh, he's also a director or producer of several films. But the most fun thing I found out about this guy, Zack, I don't know if you knew who he was, but, uh, he's a writer and he he was early in his career. He was a writer and producer on The Simpsons. And [00:04:00] I am not joking. His appearance, his general appearance is the inspiration for The Simpsons character Otto Man. So that was the bus driver or is the bus driver if you know The Simpsons. Zach, were you familiar with this? Do you have any is this ring any bells?

Zach Frank: I had no idea.

Caleb Newquist: Had you heard of this guy? Had you heard of either of these filmmakers before?

Zach Frank: Nope. Not at all. Okay. This guy was this guy part of the Harvard group that, like, went to Harvard and became a writers on The Simpsons.

Caleb Newquist: I believe so, but I didn't verify that bit. [00:04:30] I know Maya Forbes went to Harvard. I did verify that in her bio. Um, and anyway, and her and her husband have done lots of stuff together. Uh, also another fun fact, uh, Maya Forbes sister is China Forbes, who has a small part in the movie. Uh, but she is most notable as the lead singer of the band Pink Martini. Zack, do you know the pink martini?

Zach Frank: I've heard of them, I don't I wouldn't be able to recognize any of their songs.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, they are, to my knowledge. They are kind of like it's [00:05:00] kind of big band, kind of orchestral, but they do jazz. They do all kinds of stuff. I had a friend who saw them here in Denver somewhat recently, and apparently their shows are fun, but it's kind of like its own thing. Sure. Anyway. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh, speaking of music, uh, Zach, the music was done by Theodore Shapiro and Alex Meixner. You're a music guy. Do you know these guys? Have you heard of them before?

Zach Frank: Yeah. So Theodore Shapiro, if also connects to this. [00:05:30] He's, uh, like Ben Stiller's main composer. And Ben Stiller's production company produced this Theodore Shapiro. People might know him from, uh, 71, I think the Emmy for that, for the theme. He did that actually. Yep. Um, but then also, uh, you know, Tropic Thunder dodgeball going back 20 years, secret life.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, we did the Tropic Thunder music.

Zach Frank: Yeah. He's been working with Ben Stiller and those people for. He's a, he's another smart guy. I think he went to Juilliard. He went to an Ivy before that, and he got very successful in his 20s.

Caleb Newquist: Even he has lots of credits I lose. He's got [00:06:00] a very long, detailed Wikipedia page. And you're right, he did win the, the, the, the Emmy for the severance theme, which is a great theme. But anyway, let's talk about the movie. Um, Zack, I will allow you, I will give you first crack. What did you think of the polka King?

Zach Frank: Uh, so I'm gonna be honest out of all these. Oh, my God, at the movies we have done, this is by far my least favorite movie we've watched. And I did not enjoy it.

Caleb Newquist: Did not enjoy it. Not [00:06:30] one bit.

Zach Frank: Uh, not one bit. Like, were there things about it that I liked? Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Was there anything that you liked about it? Yes. Did you like Jack black?

Zach Frank: Not really.

Caleb Newquist: Okay. Did you like Jason Schwartzman?

Zach Frank: Schwartzman I liked some, I liked some of the side performances. Uh, I liked Jenny Slate. I liked Jason Schwartzman. Yeah, I liked, uh, Jacki Weaver, everyone else's characters. Jb Smoove. Uh. Vanessa Bayer.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, we'll get to JB. We'll get to JB. Yeah. Don't, don't. Yeah. Okay. But yeah. Go on. [00:07:00] But so like Jacki Weaver, like the mother in law, she she's a great character.

Zach Frank: Yeah, it's it's cliche, but it was good. She did a good job.

Caleb Newquist: It was yeah.

Zach Frank: Giving giving her son in law like, you know, why are you not making money? Like, how are you going to make or how are you going to support my daughter and my grandson? Like typical things.

Caleb Newquist: Totally, totally believable. And in kind of a and totally in a eastern Pennsylvania kind of way. Right? Yes. Yeah.

Zach Frank: Yeah, definitely.

Caleb Newquist: So tell me, so the Jack black. Just just go back to the [00:07:30] main character, Jack black, who plays Jan Lavan. Uh, what what what wasn't working for you on that part?

Zach Frank: I just felt he was way too one dimensional. He was just like, oh, I love polka music. I'm so happy go lucky. And like, they, they try. There's a couple scenes where it's like, oh, I might have more sinister to him, but like, I feel like in the end, they just try to make him way too much of a sympathetic, like, I'm just happy go lucky. Silly me. I'm just making these mistakes for being me. And like, it just. Yeah. There was nothing to him.

Caleb Newquist: And he was. And he was. They definitely the point of view. The [00:08:00] movie takes a point of view on this, which is that he is a sympathetic character. And there's a couple of times where they show him like sobbing in his car, and then he, like, gets himself together to like, become the John Lavon that everybody knows and loves, which is the happy go lucky, you know, kind of hard working guy. And, um, and so yeah, I see. Yeah. Poker singer. Yeah, a performer. Right. So, um, I just want to touch [00:08:30] on some of the themes before we get into the actual story and the fraud stuff. But, um, I have a few things listed here like, and you, you, you can tell me your reaction, uh, if you agree or disagree, but I think a big theme in this movie Is the American dream and its false promises, and how it kind of misleads people in a pretty significant way. What do you think of that?

Zach Frank: Yeah, I mean, for sure. I [00:09:00] mean, how many songs are there in this movie about America, how much he loves America?

Caleb Newquist: The one he said there at one point. There's at one point in the movie where he's telling the band to play. Um, does he say God Bless America? Or I don't know, he's like, I'm, oh, I'm proud to be an American. I'm proud to be American, which is a, which is a, which is a, is a, is part of the song. Uh, God bless the USA. Bye bye. Uh, Greenwood, Lee Greenwood. Um, which is, you know, we can't get into [00:09:30] that. John Oliver does has a whole segment on that song if you want to look into that. But the point is when he said proud to be American, I'm like, oh my God, is he going to sing? Is he actually mean? God bless the USA? Are they going to like sing Lee Greenwood song? And they totally don't. It's like this total made up song that he wrote Yeah. And it's, it's you're right. It's cheesy and it's hilarious. But what they want us to know what the movie is trying to portray is that like, John really believed in the, the American dream like that. It [00:10:00] was, it was a, it was a real thing and that it was making his dreams come true. And that's what he told everybody.

Zach Frank: Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Right. Okay. So, uh, this is a fraud story. So betrayal is obviously a theme. Uh, Yan betrays virtually everyone in his life, his family, uh, all the people in his band, and, uh, of course, his investors. And we'll talk about that more when we get to the fraud stuff. Okay. Two more things quickly. Um, I here's, here's something that I think [00:10:30] is pretty obvious. Good people. I think there's some question about maybe you disagree whether Yan was actually good or not, but I think good people that do bad things.

Zach Frank: I'm not going to disagree. He's good. I just feel like we just saw him too one dimensional. I think overall he probably is a good person.

Caleb Newquist: But yeah, but very much so. I think one thing that a lot of our episodes have touched on over the, you know, the whole course of the show is that good people do bad things all the time. And this is another story of that. Uh, one more. Oh. Easy one. This [00:11:00] is a this is a story about greed. Zach.

Zach Frank: Yeah, definitely.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. And we'll talk about that more. Of course. And I think one more thing that I jotted down and maybe I'm this is kind of like number one talking about the American dream. But throughout this movie, there is kind of this conspicuous drumbeat of America is a great place, right? And in reality, it's just a flashy distraction from something that is completely, [00:11:30] uh, which reality is a much, uh, blurrier picture and stuff is actually going off the rails and people are just ignoring that.

Zach Frank: I'm not going to disagree with any of those.

Caleb Newquist: Okay. All right. Okay. But you don't. But you didn't like the movie overall. So mixed bag on the themes. So let's get into the story. Let's get into the fraud. Okay. And I guess, do you want to start or. I guess there's nothing fancy about this, right?

Zach Frank: No. Nothing fancy. [00:12:00] And like, as you, you know, we talked about, uh, the mother in law and like, you know, she doesn't like him. And very early on in the movie, she basically says, like, we see him working hard. He has a little story as his polka band. He has a gift shop is what his story is. And then he also like, he has a pizza delivery job or whatever, and he's like, he's very happy about it.

Caleb Newquist: But yeah.

Zach Frank: The mother in law, she has moved in recently and she wants him to become like a skilled professional, like an electrician or a plumber.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Tradesman.

Zach Frank: Yeah. Tradesman. Exactly. [00:12:30] And, um, she's just like nagging at him and she basically says, yeah, she's like, how are you gonna support my, my daughter and my, my grandson and, uh, very early on is telling him that, uh, he's not making enough money and he has to figure something else out.

Caleb Newquist: Right?

Zach Frank: So if you want to go with fraud triangle right away, there's pressure. Pressure.

Caleb Newquist: Pressure straight away. Yep. Yeah. But you're right. He he he is. And I think, you know, this goes back to one of the themes about the American dream, [00:13:00] like the idea that, like, if you come here and you work hard, you can you can make it. And Yan is working his ass off. He is working. He's. He said he's delivering pizzas. There's that scene where he's sitting in the pizza parlor and Jason Schwartzman's character comes in, Mickey, and he comes in and he's just waiting there like, oh, they're just having a little chat here at this pizza. Or maybe they're going to get some pizza. It's like, no, the guy gives him this huge stack of pizzas. He puts on the hat and he's going to go deliver them. And [00:13:30] he is, he, he really is just trying to make ends meet while he, he says this in the scene with the mother when when they're kind of when the mother in law is kind of giving him and Marla a hard time. He's like, I build Empire. I build Empire, and then his wife is for. To her credit, very supportive. Like like she says to her mom, she says, like, what if he wants to build an empire, let him build an empire, you know? But the mother in law, of course, is, is not buying this stuff.

Caleb Newquist: So yeah, tons of pressure. [00:14:00] And, you know, it is the other thing that I think becomes evident really early is that Yan and his best friend, Mickey, there's this guy, Mickey, the character Mickey, played by Jason Schwartzman. There's pressure on that guy because like, he's a talented musician. He, you know, the, the, he, he's the clarinetist. Um, and, uh, you know, they, they kind of build him up as like the, you know, kind of the musical genius. But he's the virtuoso. Yeah, [00:14:30] that's a good way to put it. And, and he wants to quit the band. And Yan says to him, he comes into the shop, he comes into the, the knick knack shop or the tchotchke shop, whatever you want to call it. And he he says to Jan, he's like, I got to quit the band. And and he says, Mickey Stutz, you are the band. You know, and he's. And he tells him right away, they can't quit because. Because Jan knows that Jan is the front man and he's the singer and all that. But Mickey is, you know, he's the virtuoso. He is the band. And [00:15:00] so he and he. And he talks him out of it by selling him on, you know, again, the American dream. He's like, he's like, he promises him essentially. He's like, I'm going to make this work.

Caleb Newquist: I'm going to I'm going to pay you more money. I'm going to pay the band more money. And I think there's the funny bit where he's like, he, he says, he's like, I'm gonna just go back to RadioShack, which is pretty hilarious because as we all know, RadioShack doesn't exist anymore. So that's kind of a laugh. And Jan is like, no, Mickey Stutz, you cannot do this. And he talks the dancing bear. [00:15:30] The dancing bear was what I was going to get to. He's like, I he Mickey says to him, he goes, he's like, the band is hearing these rumors that you're going to put a dancing bear in the band and yawn like admits. He's like, yes, I am going to put in the Dancing Bear. And despite the Dancing Bear and kind of all this, you know, ludicrousness around the band, uh, Mickey kind of relents. And I think it's because he loves Jan. This is his friend. And, you know, I'm not talking romantic love like man friend love, you know? And so he he wants to [00:16:00] believe him. And so he convinces Mickey to stay. But Jan has this pressure. He has he has all he has this whole band that he's got to take care of because this is this is how they're choosing to follow him. Right. So that's additional pressure too.

Zach Frank: Yep. And then also, just because you mentioned Radio Shack, I feel like it's probably worth pointing out, I don't think we have yet that this movie takes place in the 90s.

Caleb Newquist: Yes. Right. It opens in 1990. And around this time, I don't know. But you're right. It's very it's very much in the 90s. And it's weird because [00:16:30] I don't know if you feel this way, but like, I assume they got the clothes right. I, you know, I assume that yeah. But you're like, wow, is that because I remember the 90s and.

Zach Frank: I was like.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, I'm just like, wow, that's pretty, pretty schlocky. Pretty bad. Anyway, so quickly, we understand that Jan has pressure around him and he and he, because he believes in the American dream, he believes that he can figure things out. And he keeps working. He keeps working. He keeps working, work harder and harder and harder. [00:17:00] And then, you know, it doesn't make a lot of sense. But but the next thing we know, we we see an old couple sitting in his office and they're big fans of Jan and what he does and they want to invest with him. And it's, I don't know, it's it's a bit of a leap, but also not, I don't know or am I forgetting something in the in the story there, it just it kind of just like gets to that kind of abruptly. I don't know if you feel the same way or if you remember it different.

Zach Frank: No, it's very, very fast. [00:17:30] It's, uh, ten minutes into the movie.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Okay. So this old couple is sitting in his office. They want to invest with John. He's pitching them. And the old man mentions the Sage ax. I'm just like the Sage ax. Like that's such a very specific name. And only only there's only one Sage that I can think of. But the point is, the old man says, oh, the Sage ax. They have money with John and they're smart with their money. But there's still a little skeptical, right? Like this, this old couple, they're kind of going back and forth. [00:18:00] But Yan Yan, what he's pitching them on, what he makes them believe and how he reassures them is that they are investing in him. Not only just polka, which they love and all these old, you know, eastern ish Pennsylvania people love, um, they, they, they love him. They love polka. They, they want to be a part of whatever it is that he's doing. And this is where I think, you [00:18:30] know, this is, this is a very good example that we've talked about lots of times, Zach, which is an affinity fraud, right?

Zach Frank: Yes. Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: And so affinity fraud is, is not an actual crime. It is a it is a type of fraud where you have this trusted figure. And that figure often exploits the trust of his, in this case, fans. In some cases it might be [00:19:00] followers. But in this case we're talking about fans of Yan, and they believe in him and what he does and his businesses. And they want to support him and because they like him. So yeah, this, this, this kind of people who well, really, let's be honest here, Zac, this is these are people who love polka. Like we haven't.

Zach Frank: Even talked.

Caleb Newquist: About.

Zach Frank: Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: We haven't even talked about this aspect of it, the story. But just like.

Zach Frank: They all love whose band.

Caleb Newquist: They love polka. So these [00:19:30] these are the people we're talking about an affinity fraud. These are people that know yawn. They love yawn. They tell their friends about yawn. Um, and this is where it kind of drifts into kind of, you know, your, your standard, standard fraud, which is that he is guaranteeing this old couple sitting in his office. He's like, I guarantee you a 12% return. And he, he even has a little flier and it has 12% right in the middle of it. And it's such [00:20:00] a weird little, uh, kind of campy thing.

Zach Frank: Yeah. He's like.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, yeah, right. This is what you're going to earn.

Movie Clip: And of course, you get money back. Guaranteed 12%. My promise to you.

Movie Clip: We're getting 3% at the bank.

Movie Clip: 12%. Sort of sounds too good to be true.

Caleb Newquist: And so obviously the producers on this movie had some kind of fraud expert, you know, come in and tell them. It's like, here's the thing about Ponzi schemes. [00:20:30]

Zach Frank: They're too good to be true.

Caleb Newquist: It sounds too good to be true. And so they they wrote that right into the script. And what's funny? Jan's response is classic. It's so perfect.

Movie Clip: It's true. That is why it's so good.

Caleb Newquist: And the old couple, they're thrilled. They love it. They buy it. And and part of it is because they want to write like, it's one of those things where it's just like there's never any doubt that they're going to invest the money with him because they love him so much. And I think that's, that's kind of the, that's the classic affinity fraud. And, [00:21:00] um, yeah, that's what we're seeing.

Zach Frank: Yeah. So I guess, you know, to explain what they were actually buying, what they were investing into it is Jan was selling, uh, promissory notes, promissory promises. How do you say promissory? Do you ever say something out loud and you second guess yourself, even though, like you've heard it a thousand times, all of a sudden?

Caleb Newquist: Have you listened? Have you? I mean, you've, you've, you've, you've produced how many podcasts like I do it in real time.

Zach Frank: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's happened to me though. I'm like, I think it's promissory. But now I'm like, is it promissory? I'm like, what the hell is promissory? Yeah. No, this. [00:21:30]

Caleb Newquist: Should all go in the episode. Yeah. No. It's promissory.

Zach Frank: Okay, so Jan is selling promissory notes and that's what he tells these the old couple to invest into. And, uh, have we explained promissory notes before on episodes?

Caleb Newquist: I don't know if we have, but it's worth going over again.

Zach Frank: Sure. Do you want to do you want me to take this?

Caleb Newquist: No. Go ahead.

Zach Frank: So basically, a promissory note is an IOU. You're agreeing to lend someone money, and they're promising to pay you back. Usually a set amount of interest over a certain period of time. So there's nothing illegal about them. But you [00:22:00] do have to register with the state regulator to sell them. You can't just be anyone just selling them unregulated. Uh, which is probably a good thing. And obviously John's notes, they're considered securities. And yeah, he was not registered.

Caleb Newquist: And I think that's the thing that a lot of, I would say the average person probably, I mean, I shouldn't I can probably be more certain about this. The average person doesn't understand, number one, what a promissory note probably is, but also that it's a security, right? [00:22:30] So if you just walk into a tchotchke shop and somebody tries to like, you know, sell you on an investment and you don't see anything around that, that shows that that they have, that they're registered with whatever the, the, the governing body is. I mean, most people aren't going to pick up on that. You know, these are just people who, who want to, you know, make a little extra money, you know, on their nest egg. And, uh, but, but in reality, [00:23:00] these are securities and they are regulated. And yeah, you just can't, you just can't, you just can't open up shop and start selling promissory notes. So anyway. And what is kind of interesting and they, and they, and I, I think it's, I think it's the, the, the old man of this couple, he asked the question. He's like, what exactly are we investing in? And Jan says you are investing in Yan and [00:23:30] all my businesses and um, it it Zack, what were there was there was all kinds of stuff that he was doing. Yeah. It really expanded. It started, it starts expanding. Yeah. It is quickly.

Zach Frank: Yeah, yeah. So he had his little store and he had his band, obviously. Yeah. And he also started a mail order catalog. And he claimed he also had amber and jewelry. Uh, in the movie, they say he had a vodka company. Uh, I haven't been able to find it. That's actually real in any like real events, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised. He also starts an entire travel business like these special travel [00:24:00] tours involving, uh, one guarantee that we'll probably get to in a little bit unless you want to talk about it now.

Caleb Newquist: Uh, but we'll get to that. We'll come to that.

Zach Frank: Okay. Yeah. So these are mostly these were like real businesses. Now, were they doing well? No. And were they worth the money he was pulling from investors. But you know, yeah, these are real businesses. You know, people could walk into the store. In fact, you know, red flag people.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. We'll talk about that later.

Zach Frank: Said that the store people later said the store was always empty. It's the red flag.

Caleb Newquist: That's right. Yeah.

Zach Frank: Um. Yeah. Yeah. In [00:24:30] a commercial, he would go on, uh, local TV to talk about stuff with his band or other businesses he had, uh, and it seemed like everyone just loved him. He was just such a likable man that everyone was like, yeah, I'll Invest with You is more about buying into him than the business.

Caleb Newquist: Jan is flamboyant. He's outgoing. He's he's very likable. He's sweet. He sweet talks the old ladies like, of course they like him. And so like, again, talking about affinity fraud, this guy. And he was and he was being genuine, at least in again, [00:25:00] in the context of the movie, we don't know what we kind of have a sense of the real Jan Lavon, and we'll get to that later. But like in the movie, Jan is just being genuine. He's being he's being his authentic self. And people love the authentic Jan. And so they want to give him money because they believe in him and they, they love his story. Okay, so we got Jan doing his thing. This old couple, they, they they're sold. They want to invest in yon. And he's he's his other fans [00:25:30] that have approached him. They're telling their friends and they're, they're more and more people are starting to invest in yon. And the movie does a good job. What I, you know, from a direction standpoint, one, one shot that I thought was very effective is that he has a paper ledger and it shows all the numbers on it. And like the numbers are starting to add up.

Caleb Newquist: Like we're talking about real money. Like there's, there's lots of people that they're not, they're not investing lots of money. We're not talking about large amounts of money. We're talking about like 10,000 here, 5000 here. But when you're talking [00:26:00] about a, um, kind of a community of people, and in this case, we're talking about Polish Americans with uh, uh, or people with Polish ancestry and, uh, elderly. And they, and they, and they're trying to make a little extra on their money. You know, there's, it's a small, tight knit community. And so, John, the amount of money that he's taking in is starting to add up. And so eventually the Pennsylvania securities regulator gets wind of this. And [00:26:30] so we cut to a cubicle farm, a beige Paradise. And who do we find? We find a kind of unexpectedly J.B. Smoove of all people. That's the comedian and actor you see. You probably know him. Or if you do know him. He's best known as Leon from Curb Your Enthusiasm, where he steals every single scene that he is in. Okay. Uh, Zach, [00:27:00] you know who J.B. Smoove is, I assume?

Zach Frank: Of course. Uh, J.B. Smoove, uh, Leon Black is one of the best characters I feel like on TV.

Caleb Newquist: Uh, perhaps. Yes. In in in in sitcom history. To be honest, um, his character's name is Ron Edwards. And so he's an investigator with this Pennsylvania state securities regulator. And he gets word that Jan is taking promissory notes.

Movie Clip: Hey, Ron, you got a minute? We got a call about some guy. Sounds like [00:27:30] he's selling illegal promissory notes. Could be a Ponzi scheme. I got 15.

Movie Clip: Open cases here. Can't you give it to Angela?

Movie Clip: She's got 19 open cases. Just look into it. And some polka guy.

Movie Clip: Who plays poker.

Movie Clip: Poker? You know, um. Papa oom pah pah.

Caleb Newquist: But the general, the general thing is, is like they understand that he's doing something that he shouldn't be doing. And so Ron goes over to John's, uh, little, uh, tchotchke shop and he says, [00:28:00] hey, can I talk to you? And he's like, of course. And he says, listen, uh, sounds like you're, you're, you're doing this thing. And Jan of pleads ignorance and he's like, yes, I am taking the invest. And he's like, and Ron says, well, you can't do that. Um, and Jan again, plain in plain, plain ignorant. He's like, I didn't know I couldn't do this. I didn't know, you know, that there were these forms and this and that and whatever. And but he promises that he'll make it right. And he's just like, how soon do I have to to do this? And Ron [00:28:30] tells him three days. And John says, no problem, I'll make it happen. And Ron is satisfied. And so then, of course, quickly we see that John, uh, does have a problem. Uh, he has, he has no idea how he's going to get the money because he's, you know, he's paying his musicians, he's starting all these new businesses. He doesn't have the money. It's all gone. And so, you know, we see him sobbing in his car because the pressure [00:29:00] is getting pretty intense. And he has three days to figure this out. Uh, but of course, he's putting on a brave face for everyone else, including his family. Uh, you know, uh, Mickey, whoever it is. Um, because he's not going to, uh, repay this money in three days. And so now, Zach, the movie, you can talk about this a little bit, but the movie.

Zach Frank: Like.

Caleb Newquist: Compresses this whole kind of regulatory. I mean, it, it doesn't [00:29:30] make for good movie making, to be honest.

Zach Frank: I mean, so.

Caleb Newquist: They, they, they simplify, they simplify it pretty, they simplify it quite a bit.

Zach Frank: Yeah. The movie definitely simplifies and compresses the timeline quite a bit. Uh, even with some five year jumps to show time passing. So like in real life, security regulators originally confront John about selling these promissory notes in 1992, uh, unregulated ones. And he continues to sell them for years. Then in December of 2000, the Pennsylvania Securities Commission formally bars him from selling them. [00:30:00] But of course, John keeps on doing it anyway. So then a few months later, in April of 2001, the regulators and the agency went to the state court to get a preliminary injunction to enforce that order against John.

Caleb Newquist: Right. Patreon in the in the portrayal, the portrayal is that it was kind of this, like you say, a very compressed timeline where he went from, oh my gosh, I'm going to fix this. Don't worry. Then he realizes, oh my gosh, I can't fix this in the time that I have to fix this. [00:30:30] And so there is this kind of this, this moment where he has this internal conflict of like, because these people want to invest more with him because, and again, this, this isn't explicitly explained in the movie, but he starts returning money to investors with, of course, new money from investors. And that's where kind of, you know, it morphs, it evolves into this Ponzi scheme. And so, you know, this same old couple that's kind of they [00:31:00] they recur throughout the movie as kind of his chief investors, like his biggest fans, his biggest supporters. They come to him at some point, they come to, they come to the store and they say to him, it's like, we gotta, we need to talk about, um, our money and the movie does a pretty good job of kind of thinking, oh man, is the jig up.

Caleb Newquist: And they sit down and he's like, we want to invest more with you. So there's a nice little turn in there where they say, you know, John who's under pressure. [00:31:30] And he's like, oh my gosh, they know that Pennsylvania knows. And he's kind of sweating it a little bit. And then they they want to give him more money. And then the light bulb goes off in his head where he's just like, oh, this is how I do it. But he already knows it's wrong. And so that's the conflict within John, at least again, in the portrayal. That's the conflict that he has to like ultimately, you know, confront that he ultimately, you know, he, he does the wrong thing because we don't have much of a story if he does the right thing, but [00:32:00] he does the wrong thing, he takes their money and then he's like, and he, he gets, he gets that initial, he gets past that initial kind of discomfort and he starts taking more and more money.

Zach Frank: Well, I was going to say they also show in between this time. Like, oh, like when he's trying to figure out ways how to pay people back when he we think he might actually do that, you know, might listen to the regulator. They show him, uh, who knows if these things are true, but they're funny. They show him like with tons of scratch tickets. Lottery tickets. That's right. Oh, God. That's right. And, uh, I think he [00:32:30] talks to his old pizza boss. Like to see if he could get, like, if he could, uh, clean up their, do the dishes, and the guy's like, there's no dishes or take out. We have, like, paper plates. Yep.

Caleb Newquist: Um, he's like, but the grease trap needs cleaned. And he's.

Zach Frank: Like.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, okay.

Zach Frank: But like, you know, so he's trying to do potentially the right thing. And I guess, you know, you could even say in a funny way that being investigated caused his and causes him to have more pressure to like, do get more money. Like, well, yeah, you know, like, in a funny way, it just kind of happened that way.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Now [00:33:00] here's where we, we've officially entered like the Ponzi scheme territory, uh, which we've talked about many, many times on many different episodes. But you know, Zach, you want to run down what a Ponzi scheme is real quick.

Zach Frank: Yeah. So basically a Ponzi scheme is when someone claims to have an investment or some opportunity that's generating real returns at very high interest rates. You know, usually, as in the movie, it says too good to be true, which obviously is what attracts people to invest [00:33:30] in the first place. But instead of actually earning those returns with investments, what they're doing is bringing in new investors and using those new investors money to pay off the promised returns to those earlier investors. And as long as you keep on bringing in new money, you can keep on paying off people. And it can look like the actual investment. And, you know, the fund is is working, it's earning the money. But eventually when that new money starts to slow down, or if too many people pull out at the same time or, you know, something happens, there's a market correction and like everyone wants their money out. That's when the whole thing [00:34:00] falls apart because there's not enough money to pay out to everyone. So anyway, for this one, for John, you know, let's say the way that he was so smart with this, he did pay out some of his investors. There's other times where, you know, someone put in $100,000. He tells them, you're, you know, I'm going to get you 12% a year. So on that $100,000, you know, you could take out the $12,000 return on it, or you could leave it in. And if you leave it in now, you have $112,000 supposedly earning 12% the next year.

Caleb Newquist: Yep. Yep.

Zach Frank: And that's basically [00:34:30] the, the compounding. And, uh, you know, for fun, I just wanted to see the math on this. And, uh, over five years, that $100,000 is gonna be worth 176,000 if you left it all in. And it's compounding and compounding each year. Yeah. If you're taking it and just taking the money out each year, you'd have 160,000 total. So, you know, just in those five years, you're earning an extra 16.

Caleb Newquist: If you had just taken out the interest, you mean.

Zach Frank: Yeah, you're just taking out the interest every year. Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. That's still that's still pretty good. Yeah.

Zach Frank: Yeah. Of course. Yeah. So whatever they wanted to do, they were making a killing. Right. More than the 3% [00:35:00] or whatever they claim the bank made.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Right. All right.

Zach Frank: Now the crazy, the crazy. One of the craziest things I feel like, um, so obviously he's supposed to be paying out, like compounding interest means that he has to recruit even more people to potentially pay out that number right at the end. Now, one of the craziest things I saw reported, um, I couldn't verify it. This is someone else's reporting, but, um, all his businesses in the year 2000 brought in $16,000.

Caleb Newquist: Wow.

Zach Frank: All 16,000. [00:35:30] His band is tchotchkes, his, uh, traveling business. All of them together brought a profit. Profit. But, uh. Wow. Pretty insane. Uh, so that's the. That's real then? Yeah. How are you ever going to pay off any of these investors? And the truth is, uh, he never was.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, and I think so kind of moving to the next phase of this, which is Yan is Yan is expanding his empire. He's building his empire, [00:36:00] right. And so he's expanding to all kinds of different businesses. And one of the most notable, uh, Of businesses is a European tour company. Zak. Tell. Tell that. Tell that story.

Zach Frank: He starts a like a travel and tour business. And one of the things that he guarantees about this business on a trip to do is they will go to the Vatican and they will meet the Pope. So the movie depicts this and [00:36:30] which.

Caleb Newquist: By the way, by the way, may I just just say for the record, getting an audience with the Pope isn't something that a person just does. It doesn't really work that way. I mean, you would feel like, you know, you see the Pope on TV and he's like, what a, what a nice he seems like a nice man. He probably this is a very busy person who is the head of a religion, a worldwide religion of billions of people. Like it isn't somebody that you just, you know, walk up and ring the doorbell and say hello.

Zach Frank: No, you know, [00:37:00] I don't know if anyone I'm sure I'm assuming everyone listening to this has seen the videos of when the Pope is in public and the thousands of people that surround him as he's walking to his cars. And like you might be able to hand him a baby to kiss or get a blessing from like, you know, that's like, that's you're in the front row. That's what you might get out of it. But just to get a private and a private audience, not just meet with him like the private audience with the Pope, private audience.

Caleb Newquist: So this is part of this is one of the tour packages that he is offering.

Zach Frank: Yeah. And also, um, let's just say right now, whatever he was offering [00:37:30] for that, he was underpricing.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. The movie portrays like him and Mickey, where they're in the Vatican and they're getting off the tour bus and Mickey Stutz, played by Jason Schwartzman. He gets back on the bus and he confronts Jan.

Movie Clip: I don't have confirmed appointment with Holy Father.

Movie Clip: What?

Movie Clip: This is the premium Pope package.

Movie Clip: Yeah.

Movie Clip: It's disaster.

Movie Clip: You said we were going to meet the Pope.

Movie Clip: I know. I've been calling for weeks. Nobody give me a answer. [00:38:00]

Movie Clip: All these people are here to see the Pope. What are you gonna tell them?

Movie Clip: I'm gonna say, uh, who you think you are. Pope is Poppy's busy man. He can't miss a bunch of nobodies from Pennsylvania.

Caleb Newquist: You know, Mickey actually walks in back on the bus where Jan is, like, stuffing cash into a briefcase to go. He's like, because his his, his whole idea is that they're going to pay a bribe to some Vatican officials so that they can get this private audience with the Pope. And yeah, [00:38:30] they eventually somehow they then they cut back to them sitting in this room and the old people are fading and all of a sudden the door opens and and the Pope comes in and it totally happens and it's ridiculous. And, uh, and Mickey is all sweaty and the Pope doesn't want to touch him. And it's, it's it's a funny moment, you know, accuracy. Who knows? But, you know, this is the magic of Hollywood. Zach.

Zach Frank: Um, so, well, I will say accuracy is in terms of, [00:39:00] uh, in terms of accuracy, apparently, like he did meet the Pope, we see the photos of it. And not only that, he somehow got in with them enough that, uh. The number I saw was over. This happened over years. It wasn't a one time experience he brought. Thousands of people that got to meet the Pope through him.

Caleb Newquist: Wow.

Zach Frank: Okay, so now the story goes back to the States. Uh, you know, we've talked about how much John loved his band. He's paying musicians more. He's touring. Another thing that he did was he recorded [00:39:30] a polka album, and he was actually able to get that polka album nominated for a Grammy for Best Vocal Album. And, uh, we actually also hear that him and his wife are flying first class to LA to attend the Grammys. We don't see any of that part, but, um, Caleb, what year was this? Do you remember? And they fly back and, uh.

Caleb Newquist: So it's 1998, and John and Mala have returned from the Grammys where John's band didn't win, uh, [00:40:00] which, you know. Anyway, they're back in Hazleton. Marla's at the dry cleaners dropping off one of these, you know, rhinestone cape things that he got mustard on, which because this is this is the recurring gag, uh, with the dry cleaner. Um, anyhow, an old high school friend of Marla's comes in and kind of gushes over her, uh, you know, mostly because she is Mrs. Jan Lewan. And it's in [00:40:30] that moment where Marla realizes that she has no identity, and she doesn't want to be Mrs. Jan Lewan. And so skip ahead, and she announces to the family that she's going to do something for herself and her mom. Barb immediately says, I think that's an excellent idea. And then Marla goes on to tell everyone that she plans to compete in the Mrs. Pennsylvania beauty pageant, and Jan is shocked at first, but ultimately [00:41:00] supportive. But Marla's mom, Barb, screams across the table. That is a complete waste of time. It's such a great scene. Like she is just freaking at her across the table. And Jackie Weaver, um, who is Australian. So most people probably don't know her from much, but she's in Silver Linings Playbook. That's probably where you might have seen her, but she's so good and like, she's just screaming at her across the table and it's fantastic. And anyway, uh, and the kid is sitting [00:41:30] there who's now a teenager by this point, and he's just rolling his eyes at all of them. And it's, it's, it's fantastic. Uh, one of the better scenes in the movie, I would say.

Zach Frank: Yeah, it's a good one.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Anyway, okay, so then fast forward to just before the competition and they're at one of the concerts and Jann announces that he's going to rent busses, motor coaches, really to take all of his fans to the pageant to support Marla. And then, of course, Mickey and the rest of the band, they hate this idea, but nevertheless, [00:42:00] they all go to this competition, to this beauty pageant. And and we see Marla competing and, uh, but she gets completely upstaged by this other contents. This other contestant, um, and even John's band, the guys stand up and they're clapping.

Zach Frank: For the other one. Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Yes. It's just great. And he's like, no, sit, sit, sit. John is like freaking out, you know? And, and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's important. Because [00:42:30] what happens next is really sets the tone for the rest of the movie, which is to everyone's surprise, Marla wins Mrs. Pennsylvania 1998. So and nobody believes it, obviously, but so we go back to Hazleton. John and Marla are back in the dry cleaner, and Marla gets a call on her cell phone. And, you know, you don't hear the conversation, but it quickly, you know, you can tell something's wrong. [00:43:00] And basically, long story short, is that her her her crown is in jeopardy because her winning it is very sus, as the kids like to say. And there's going to be an investigation. And yeah, she needs to give the crown back and the sash and the beauty pageant things. And of course, Marla is a dick. Apoplectic. Do I need to say that? I don't know if I need to say that. I like that word, though. Anyway, she's pissed, that's what I'll say. She's pissed and of course refuses. And [00:43:30] she tells Ian about it. Who is shocked. Uh. But then gets real cagey when Marla tells him that they suspect there are bribes involved.

Zach Frank: And accusations of bribery involved.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, yeah. And so and the local press gets Ahold of this. And so they're watching TV, and there's this hilarious moment where the first runner up, which is pageant talk for first loser, um, they're interviewing her on the local news and she laments about how we can't trust our [00:44:00] institutions anymore. And and, and we'll get back to this. But that is that's that goes back to one of the themes I think I mentioned up front, but never mind skip to all these people asking John for their money back. They don't want to be associated. Yep. He's getting phone call after phone call. And he, you know, people is like, they don't want to be associated with him. Uh, you know, with this scandal and, you know, this is kind of as Zach as we know, um, in any [00:44:30] Ponzi scheme, you know, when the, when, when that starts to build, when the, the number of people who want to pull their money out start to build, like that's the death knell. Like it's only a matter of time, right? And so everyone's asking for their money back and John kind of knows it. He knows that he's finished. And, you know, he's, they're, they're, they're back at the Tchotchke shop and, you know, his favorite, his favorite investors, the old couple that we've seen many times by this point, they show up and they're ready to pull their money out and they're [00:45:00] mad.

Movie Clip: We want our money back now.

Movie Clip: But why?

Movie Clip: We don't like being involved in a big scandal.

Movie Clip: But you were there, you see, she win.

Caleb Newquist: And Jan agrees. And just as he's cutting the check, he just kind of mentions that, you know, there's this this new thing going on.

Movie Clip: Business is over the roof bigger than ever. And venture is so big it's 20%. But you want money now. So I write check 20%. [00:45:30] It's not for everybody. It's only for people who want to make lots of money.

Caleb Newquist: And these two, they cannot resist. And that's, that's their role in the movie. They're, they, they kind of, they are the, uh, they kind of embody the greed, so to speak, that investors in these situations often have when they keep hearing these promises. So they're about to get a check for $273,000 or something like that. And he he talks [00:46:00] about this new investment opportunity that returns 20% and they can't resist. So they, they, they roll it back in with him.

Movie Clip: Can we roll this over into the 20% investment?

Movie Clip: Of course, you are trusting investors.

Movie Clip: We're keeping our money with you.

Caleb Newquist: And so that all transpires. And like John's back in his office and he's kind of like he's still kind of like keyed up. And his son David comes in and confronts him about how he is [00:46:30] making these promises that he can't keep, like he overheard what he was talking about. And he's like, dad, what are you doing? And John reprimands him for questioning him. And there's this kind of like, you know, there's this kind of, you know, tense moment. And then it kind of gets sweet because John realizes that he's an asshole and it's all his fault. And so he reconciles with his son. And, um, and he promises to take him on a tour. Okay. And so the next thing we see is we see the guys, we see John David, his son, [00:47:00] and, and Mickey and the rest of the band on a tour bus. Everybody's lo, you know, things are tough. Things are tough again. But John does the yawn thing and he raises everybody's spirits. And, um, anyway, the point is later we see one of the sax players driving and dozing off. And so yes, you probably know where this is going.

Zach Frank: Yeah, the band is in a really bad accident on the bus, and we don't see anything, but we hear like a overlaid [00:47:30] of a car horn honking and then it, uh, I think also a phone ringing and then it cuts to, um, uh.

Caleb Newquist: David's in the hospital because he, he, he got hurt badly in the crash and, and, and John is beside himself with regret and remorse. And, you know, he, he he he is, he's afraid that David might not make it. And so he's he's pleading. He's starting to like, pray. Right in the hospital room or [00:48:00] or and or he's. And then he's in the hall with Mickey and he's he's saying, I'm a bad man. I'm a bad man. I, you know, I have to make this right. He's like, give me the opportunity, God, to make this right. And lo and behold, who shows up? But Leon, I mean, JB, I mean Ron Edwards and to, to arrest John. Uh, because they, they got another tip about, you know, this, this latest kind of spiraling, uh, fraud going out of control. And so they're there [00:48:30] to, to arrest him and, and they do, and not without, you know, some hijinks and, um, you know, some, some screwball comedy antics, uh, but they, they finally arrest John and, um, and so that's kind of, that's kind of where the fraud aspect of it ends. Zach. Um, any, anything, any thoughts you want to share before we, uh, kind of move on to wrap up the movie at least.

Zach Frank: No. You know, the movie makes it seem like it unravels pretty fast there at the end, but who knows? I feel like it was probably a [00:49:00] longer decline in real life of a, you know, different issues not being able to afford things. Oh yeah. There actually, there was that line from his band mate about not getting paid or there was some line like also that was already happening. He was struggling with money even on top of this, because again, the issue with Ponzi schemes are even people just naturally are pulling out because of the compound interest. It's so much more money now that, uh, like it's hard to get more investors to cover that.

Caleb Newquist: That's right. Yeah, yeah. Because if you're promising these returns, you just can't return the principal. [00:49:30] You got to give them, they got to give them all that compound interest. And so like if people are pulling out, then yeah, the money starts disappearing.

Zach Frank: That's why it snowballs so fast when there is. Yeah. When there are these issues.

Caleb Newquist: Yep.

Zach Frank: Exactly. So that's yeah. That covers the fraud part.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. And so then, you know, the, the rest of the movie is, you know, we see, we see yawn, you know, he, he's, on trial. You know, there's a there's a media circus, you know, by small town Pennsylvania standards, there's a media circus around it. You know, Yan pleads guilty. Um, he [00:50:00] ultimately gets sentenced to like five years in prison, I think. And, um, and we, uh, we see him go to prison and he's in prison and, you know, it's, it's very, you know, it's just, you know, it's, it's it's nothing too remarkable about it until we kind of learn who his roommate is, who is apparently not a nice guy. And, um, it builds very quickly. This aspect develops really quickly in the movie. But long story short, uh, Yan's roommate, uh, slits his throat [00:50:30] and.

Zach Frank: Literally.

Caleb Newquist: And. Yeah, yeah. And, um, and so, so Yan, uh, has a kind of a near death experience and, um, and that is obviously, you know, harrowing and frightening and terrible, but it's, but it is part of the story. And then later, you know, he survives. Right. He survives. And so, you know, that's good. And then we see him talking with Marla. Marla's visiting him in prison. And [00:51:00] she's saying, you know, she they're kind of talking about how he's doing and this and that and whatever. And also there's this funny scene where Marla says that, uh, her mom is finally defending Yan. Uh, the old couple who had invested that we saw invest so much money with Yan, confronted Barb in a parking lot at a grocery store. And, uh, you know, they, they they're kind of harassing her, and she just gives it right back to him.

Zach Frank: And they kind of say it was good that he got [00:51:30] stabbed in the neck. Yeah, exactly.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. That he and the, the old woman is like, too bad they didn't finish the job. And she just slaps her right in the face. And then she slaps the husband and she's throwing her groceries on their car. And then, um, and then I think the icing on the cake for that was like the old woman. She, she pops her head out of the door and she's like, there's something very wrong with you. And and, uh, yeah, there probably was, you know, Barb's Barb's mom was or sorry, Barb was was [00:52:00] kind of, uh, a little unhinged, but, uh, but a great character. And so nevertheless, um, back to Marla. She, she's, she's leaving John and he's devastated, of course. And he's like, no, now I have lost everything and he's very upset. And, you know, it's, it's the, it's, it's his, it's as low as he can get. And, um, you know, from there, it's, it is kind of just kind of this very slow. But obviously in the movie, it's very quick road to redemption. We later see John [00:52:30] leaving prison and Mickey and David are there to pick him up and they, they reconcile and um, they have some, they have a few laughs and, and John retains his optimism and retains ultimately retains, uh, his belief in the American dream. Like they're just driving down the road and he's just saying to Mickey, he's just saying, look how beautiful it is. It's heaven, it's heaven, it's heaven. He still believes. He still believes. And, um, and that's the movie. I don't know, Zach, is there leave [00:53:00] anything out? I think that kind of.

Zach Frank: Covers most of the actual movie.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. So I think, you know, before we let's do one, let's do one thing before we kind of compare fact and fiction. Yeah. Um, you said near the top of the episode that you did not like the movie. So, uh, yeah, so let's recap a little bit. Tell me, Zach. Frank, why did you not like this movie?

Zach Frank: Yeah. So I'll caveat slightly that I was sick when I watched this. So, you know, it wasn't the best mood. Okay. But [00:53:30] also I just felt I just didn't they just didn't come together. You know, movies have to come together. Things have to work. This one, there was a couple things where I just felt it was the pacing was strange. Uh, things would be fast and slow, like we just said, like, you know, wrapping up fast. Sometimes there'd be long things of nothing. I thought that the characters were pretty. One note, as I mentioned at the beginning. Um, one thing with the acting so strange to me was like JB Smoove, I think is one of the funniest men alive, and I feel like he killed it in some scenes and other scenes. It [00:54:00] was horrible.

Caleb Newquist: Completely wasted. No no no. So that I would say that's that would be one of my key critiques of the movie is that JB Smoove was completely his character was completely kind of, um, uh, squandered. Like you just have this immensely talented actor, comedic actor and like, he just like, there's just not enough. There's just nothing too remarkable about his performance in this. And it's just a shame because he is [00:54:30] so funny.

Zach Frank: Yeah. And then my biggest complaint in this movie.

Caleb Newquist: Here we go.

Zach Frank: Why so many songs? I'm sorry. I know he's the polka king. I know it's the title of the movie Way too many damn songs. Uh. It's not a musical, but honestly, technically, yeah. Technically it's musical, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's more music in this than tons of other ones. And not just like I'm talking about, like, performing, like, more performances of these damn songs. Yeah, so many of them. Um.

Caleb Newquist: We talked about this earlier, but if you, if you watch [00:55:00] the film to the end and you watch the credits and you know, when you watch, if you're a credits watcher, the songs that are in the movie are near the end. And you know, some movie like a Martin Scorsese movie. Like it takes like, I don't know, 90s for all the songs to go usually. And this is kind of another one of those where you're just like, Jesus, how many songs are in this? Like, and they're just all. And what's funny is I noticed, I noticed that the. Some of the songs were written by Maya Forbes and her husband [00:55:30] who wrote who, who wrote the screenplay. They also wrote some of this music. So not for nothing. Good effort, but there's just two. Somebody had 14.

Zach Frank: Songs.

Caleb Newquist: There's 14 songs. Okay?

Zach Frank: There's 14 songs.

Caleb Newquist: In the movie's only like 93 minutes. Like it's not very long. It's a very short movie.

Zach Frank: And it's this claims, according to my quick Google search, this claims that they're all performed in the film, 14 songs on the soundtrack. And they.

Caleb Newquist: All I believe it.

Zach Frank: Featured.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Zach Frank: I'm sorry. Just what is it going. I'm sorry. I like polka music. Like we [00:56:00] said. Uh, we didn't we didn't need that.

Caleb Newquist: Not a fan.

Zach Frank: Five would have done five probably would have been the edge of like, what would have been too much for me. Right. And and this is well, there's nine more.

Caleb Newquist: I think that's the other thing too, is like, I don't know it.

Zach Frank: What was it adding? What are the.

Caleb Newquist: Songs? Well, so that's the question, right? Like at a certain point, you got to be like, all right, so what is the music? We, we, we get it. We get after a few, after 2 or 3 songs we get, it's like, oh yeah, polka was the thing. So [00:56:30] you needed 4 or 5 times that many songs I don't like, I don't know, it was. Yeah, I think I think that's fair. I think I'm, I think you're I'm, I'm probably a little bit more forgiving than you are. I thought there were there were some laugh out loud. There were some legitimate laugh out loud moments. Um, you know, Jack black is, is hamming it up pretty good. And so whether or not you like a, a hammy performance or not, uh, it sounds like Zach didn't appreciate this one. Uh, [00:57:00] that much.

Zach Frank: I like Jack black in it too.

Caleb Newquist: I you did like it. Honestly, you're.

Zach Frank: Just saying like the one.

Caleb Newquist: Dimensionality of it. Yeah.

Zach Frank: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Overall, just it just didn't come together enough for me. Like, it's not the worst thing I've ever seen. It's not, like unwatchable by any means or anything. It's like, yeah. And I'm sure everyone sometimes that just happens to, you know, for me, just knowing about the energy, sometimes it doesn't come together in the edit, like whatever the script, like, you know, is ready, but then you know, who knows? There's a bunch of things that could go wrong in the actual making of a movie. It's a really difficult process. And just it didn't fully come together for me.

Caleb Newquist: Right. Yeah.

Zach Frank: I [00:57:30] was a little too harsh when I talked about it at the beginning of this episode, just because, like I said, I was a, you know, like I said, I was, to be fair, your mood when you watch a movie to me also is a really big indication if you even like it. If you're in a bad mood before you start a movie, like you're most likely not going to enjoy it. That's a lot to flip you around.

Caleb Newquist: That's right, that's right. Yeah. All right. Um. All right. So let's let's talk a little bit now. Uh, fact from fiction. Um, we've, we've, I don't know, it'll be tough to cover all the stuff, but, uh, yeah, yeah. [00:58:00] Go ahead. Yeah.

Zach Frank: So just for the big things, uh, funny ones is like what the movie changes and what it doesn't. So in the movie, uh, Rhonda has to give up her crown for Miss Pennsylvania.

Caleb Newquist: So Rhonda, for what it's worth, is the real Yan Lavon's real wife's name. Her name in the movie is Marla. His wife's name in real life was Rhonda. Okay, go.

Zach Frank: So she had to give back her Miss Pennsylvania crown in the movie. Eventually. Yep. After, like being they were sued or whatever. In real life, there was multiple lawsuits, but she actually [00:58:30] never had to give it back. Uh, she actually at one point relinquished it. And then after the lawsuit was found, not guilty. And like he didn't take a bribe. Uh, she she worked really hard to get it back.

Caleb Newquist: Oh my God.

Zach Frank: So that was a little funny to me. Uh, another thing was the bus crash that we talked about that landed his son in the hospital. He got his son in the hospital. Actually, two members of his band died during that, which is, you know, I didn't talk about that. No. Uh, another thing that doesn't go into is Jan's businesses were all failing at the same time like that. Everyone was pulling his [00:59:00] money out. He also wasn't able to run any of these businesses. Briefly mentioned that like he couldn't pay his band the same and he was struggling for that. But like, they all were failing. He actually had to file a bankruptcy like or very close to filing bankruptcy at this moment. Like, so it seems like the fraud was going to come to an end in some way or another. Like, even if it wasn't with that. And then, uh, like the, if you want, just like proof of how poor all these businesses were doing, they liquidated all the assets he owned and it was apparently like equaled $66,000.

Caleb Newquist: And what was [00:59:30] the total size of the fraud?

Zach Frank: Uh, I think 4.9 million is what he took. And then the creditors claim 12.5 million because of just like loans he took and other things where he wasn't based off of the actual money he took from people. Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: $66,000.

Zach Frank: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Caleb Newquist: And the just a little short.

Zach Frank: If you want to know this, the number of the actual like investors, there's over 400 investors across 21 states were involved in giving him money in this Ponzi scheme. Uh, he was indicted on 57 felony counts. He [01:00:00] ultimately pled guilty to six racketeering, theft, securities fraud, sale of unregulated securities and acting as an unregistered securities agent. And he actually had a separate new Jersey prosecution just in that state. But that was for mail and wire fraud. And it was a five year sentence for the Delaware case, a seven year sentence for the new Jersey case. Oh, yeah. Delaware case too. So he had three cases federal, Delaware, new Jersey. They ran concurrent. The sentences ran concurrently. So you didn't have to serve each out separately. You know, the federal one was long enough that it covered [01:00:30] all the other ones. So when he was released in 2009, that covered. He didn't like face. He didn't have to go somewhere to another prison.

Caleb Newquist: Okay. All right. So that's our fact versus fiction. So Yan Yan, is Yan's still around, right?

Zach Frank: Yeah. You know, so he stayed in the US. He loves the US. He returned to performing polka. I don't know how successful he is. He also did go back to organizing trips to Poland and. Oh, really in general. Yeah. And obviously he was heavily involved in all of the making of [01:01:00] there's a documentary of this man and Yan, and there's also this movie we just we just covered. So he was heavily involved in both of them. He was a producer and like, yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Well, I was what I was going to mention was that it, I, we didn't say this at the top, but technically this movie was adapted from the documentary or based on the documentary. I don't know, there's these, these have technical meanings that we're not going to get into here. But the documentary was kind of an inspiration for the, for the feature. And so, um, but [01:01:30] it's, but you weren't able to find it streaming anywhere, right? Because I was trying to look for it. Yeah.

Zach Frank: It seems like Netflix had the rights to it at some point and lost them. I think it was 2021 and 2022, and it's impossible to really find since then.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. And that one's called The Man Who Would be Polka King, I think, or something. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, hey, if you got a VHS copy laying around somewhere or VHS, uh, if you got any copy of it laying around, uh, we'd love to see it. Um, but anyway. All right, so, uh, what do you think?

Zach Frank: I think there's some lessons we could cover. Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Should we cover some lessons? Let's [01:02:00] cover some lessons.

Zach Frank: Yeah, I think there's some lessons, so. Okay. Did we learn anything? Uh, you know, again, rehashing stuff that we've gone over before, including including the classics. But I'll just quickly go through these. Feel free to add or interrupt anything you want. Okay. So basically the most obvious one we talked about a little bit was the fraud triangle. So we go through it, pressure, opportunity, rationalization. The pressure to me was pretty obvious. We see it from the beginning. John is constantly working, but none of them is actually working out. You know, the band isn't making enough money, his pizza job, whatever. You [01:02:30] know, it's very hard to make a living. His bandmates gonna quit on him. Mickey. His mother in law's giving him shit because he can't support his family. And John has the bigger vision of himself. You know, he's gonna. Yep. He's meant for bigger things than the opportunity. And I think this ties directly to another lesson we'll go over in a second. But that's the affinity fraud. He has all these people around him who already trust them. They're fans of his music. Some of them are the same Polish American community. They've gone to his shows, so they know him personally, so they feel like, or at least they think they know him personally. Somebody starts taking investments he doesn't have to like have a fake background [01:03:00] of like being an investor or whatever, some sophisticated scheme of like, only I have like this new opportunity for you people just give him the money because he's asking for it. He doesn't have to do much more than that. That's really easy opportunity. And then this rationalization is what we didn't talk about.

Zach Frank: And we said we we talked about it a little bit with the movie. And I think this is probably one of the most interesting parts is the movie doesn't like the movie, doesn't portray him as someone who's like, I'm going to steal all these people's money and they're never going to see it again. Yeah. He seems to convince himself that like, this is only temporary. [01:03:30] I'm going to take this money, but I'm going to do well. Something's going something's going to go well for me. And I think there's even a scene where he basically he's talking to himself in confessional to the priest when he says, like, uh, he, he'll make enough money and be able to pay everyone back. Basically. He even says that in his head. And the priest, the. There's also a funny scene where the priest is like, my, my, uh, aunt invested her retirement with you. You better not be talking like he said something like that to him back. Yeah, but my only thing is, I don't think he's like an evil man whose [01:04:00] rationalization is, I'm going to just like I deserve this money, you know, like one of those people, like, I don't make enough this this is personally owed to me. I'm so good at music. Like, this is what I should be getting paid. It's more like his rationalization also is probably he wants to keep his band. He wants to. He wants people to do well. But he also thinks that these people are going to get their money back somehow, right? Like it's delusional, but like, that's how the movie portrays it.

Caleb Newquist: No, but that is the but I mean, rationalization is often delusional. Yeah. And so yeah, this, that makes it kind of a. Pretty [01:04:30] typical case. Yeah. There was a scene where he I don't remember it was when he was pleading with Mickey or something, um, where he said, you know, one of these is going to hit and then I'm going to be able to make, make good for everybody. And, and yeah, it was he, he, he believed that he was going to be able to do it. And again, I think the American dream being kind of the, the unreachable or the, you know, that, that that's the that, that unreachable goal of the American dream, whatever [01:05:00] it was for John, which was to build an empire again, whatever that means. Um, he, he was determined to do it. He believed he could do it because he had made it here. Um, and so he was, he was determined. He just never wavered in that belief.

Zach Frank: He also has like the line about, you know, he's doing what his cousin did. I have no clue what that was like, you know, like taking the money and creating some type of fun with it. Like he says, like that's what inspired him to do it. Who knows?

Caleb Newquist: Oh that's right. Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's very easy. Promissory note. It's very easy. It's [01:05:30] like, oh, yeah.

Zach Frank: And then again, just for we again, we've mentioned all these, but affinity fraud, like having a local trusted community or fan base gives access to money that you take other schemes to create. As you just said, you know, there's no independent verification that you have to do with like a stranger investing in you. You know, you're not asking to see their degrees, you're not like whatever. And then also with, with these people, he's not cold calling, right? Like they're, they're coming to him. And in fact, we even see an example of that when one of the friends recommends him, like, uh, like [01:06:00] they're telling someone else to invest with Yorn and they say, well, they're smart with money. So if they trust Yorn, shouldn't we? Yeah. Like that's, you know, so another lesson. Do your own research. Even if you're part of a community, someone tells you something. And then, uh, I guess the last one, it's not even really in this, but I just want to mention it again is, um, basically the idea of a clawback. So I didn't even learn about this until recently. And when we did our research for the Israel case of a of a Ponzi scheme. Yep. But [01:06:30] so, so basically, I'll just use $100,000. And we've been using it basically as a, as total. So if I invested $100,000 over ten years with compound interest, I've made $150,000. And let's say I pull that out in 1999 and the fraud collapses in 2000.

Zach Frank: The people who didn't get their money back at all are able to actually sue and collect that extra $50,000 profit that I made. So even though I got my money out in time, I didn't do anything wrong. They could potentially take away money that you earned out of this fund because technically that was never [01:07:00] he didn't earn that money. You the $50,000 you got as the interest was someone else's money. Yeah. It's the same way that yeah, it's the same way that like, uh, no matter what you lost, you're never going to make back the interest that you lost out on. So if you had someone. So basically I put in $100,000, right? If over ten years, that should be worth total $200,000. And I, you know, they're trying to collect from me, I'm never getting that $200,000. The most I could get back is at 100,000. And the ten years of interest. Yeah, the ten years of interest are just lost. It's just gone. Yeah. [01:07:30] That's right. Yeah, yeah. You're never you're never going to get that back now I don't know. We didn't we couldn't find any actual examples of what happened to that in this case. But I just know that, you know, it is interesting that your profits not even safe in these cases, just, you know.

Caleb Newquist: Well, I.

Zach Frank: Think.

Caleb Newquist: In the investment frauds, you know, Madoff was a similar thing where there were people who invested with Bernie Madoff early on, got their money out and never looked back. And, you know, part of what, you know, there's there's always a person in these cases that has signed usually it's called [01:08:00] a bankruptcy trustee. And basically it's their job to claw back as much money as they can from wherever they can, whether it's a bank, whether and they file lawsuits. So sometimes they sue banks, sometimes they sue accounting firms, sometimes they sue brokers. And a lot of times they go back to people who were early investors and got their money out and they say, hey, uh, yeah, that's not yours. You got to give, you got to give that back? And that is, you know, and like you say, nobody's fault of their own but that but [01:08:30] the fact is that those are ill gotten gains. That money doesn't belong to them. Um, you know, the original, the principle, the principle they put in and put and then pulled out that part is. But whatever grew from that. Um, any, any, any gains that came from that. Yeah. They, it's not like you just get to keep that stuff and people fight it all the time. Like people, people aren't like, I think that's, that's, that's part of the American psyche, which is like, well, it's mine. So finders keepers, [01:09:00] like finders keepers is like is pretty entrenched in American DNA.

Zach Frank: I, I get it, I get it. And with the law and.

Caleb Newquist: With the, the, the, the litigious nature of, uh, our culture, also those things combined. Yeah. People are going to fight that every time.

Zach Frank: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I guess to be fair, there is one other, I said this was the last lesson. I did think of something else actually, that they show in the movie that. Okay, uh, basically the quick little one, uh, if someone, if you asked to look at someone's books, but you don't [01:09:30] know what you're looking at, or if someone shows you books, but you don't know what you're looking at, that's not verification. That is right. Uh, like in the movie Mickey, Mickey says, like, let me see the books. And John is like, yeah, no problem. And we saw earlier that John has all these locked lockers, like, or file cabinets in his, in his office. And like, and in the actual case they did, he did have like fake charts and fake other things. So like, yeah, if you're showing people like, oh, this is what your investments going to and all this other stuff, you're not an auditor. You don't know unless you are an auditor. Like you don't know what you're looking at. So it's not that hard to create a pair of fake books that like, show you a bunch of money's there. So you can't [01:10:00] just trust unverified, like, uh, report from the person who's showing you like who you're investigating.

Caleb Newquist: That's right.

Zach Frank: Another quick little one there. All right. That's everything I got.

Caleb Newquist: All right. Cool. No, I think it's good. There you have it. That was Zach and I discussing the Polka King. It is streaming on Netflix. If you are, if if if you're intrigued, if you want to watch it, check it out. That's it for this episode. And remember, the difference between beauty pageants and Ponzi [01:10:30] schemes is that beauty pageant losers. They find out on stage. If you have questions, comments, or suggestions for stories, drop me a line at O my fraud at earmark. Cpe.com. This episode of Oh My Fraud was written by Zach Frank and me, Caleb Newquist. Oh My fraud is created, produced and hosted by me, Caleb Newquist. Zach Frank is my co producer, audio engineer and music supervisor. Laura Hobbs designed the logo rate review and subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. If you listen on earmark, that's where CPE [01:11:00] can be had. All right, join us next time for more avarice, swindlers and scams from stories that will make you say, oh my fraud.