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Caleb Newquist: Hello and welcome to fraud, a true crime podcast where getting revenge doesn't mean you have to have a death wish. Just a lot of time on your hands. I'm Caleb Newquist. Today on the show, Jonathan Walton. [00:00:30] Now, you probably don't know that name. Maybe you do, but this guy is a lot of things. A lot of different things. He's a TV producer. He's a journalist. He's an investigator. He's a podcast and newly published author. If you have heard of him, you probably heard of him from his podcast. It's called Queen of the con, and it's in its sixth season. And the first season of this podcast was notable [00:01:00] because it was the story of Jonathan being conned, and it's gone on to do five more seasons. But in any case, um, he has this new book Hot Off the Press. It's called anatomy of a Con Artist from Penguin Random House. Uh, you can get it wherever you get books. But this was of great interest to us here at the show because he is a victim of fraud. And then he [00:01:30] lived out the ultimate revenge fantasy by going after the person who defrauded him. And he told us his story. And it's a great story. So that's what you're gonna hear today. Uh, it's super fun. Um, let's do a couple reviews real quick. Emcea2. I don't I don't know what that's supposed to be. People are too clever for their own good. Uh. Five stars. Uh, [00:02:00] and this, uh, reviewer is here for the language. You're welcome. This podcast is top tier. The producing is professional and educational.

Caleb Newquist: I greatly appreciate the time and effort they gave putting into the material. I don't know what that's supposed to mean. Uh, anyway, uh, don't let the whiny bad reviews about language fool you. It's tame. The stories are outrageous and entertaining. Yeah, I would say, um, that, uh, number one, thanks for the review. But number two, yeah, it's I don't know, I don't feel, [00:02:30] uh, the need to curse as much in the post-gregg era. I think when Greg and I were doing it together, we maybe egged each other on a bit. And that was, uh, that was part of the dynamic. Part of the chemistry. Um, but, yeah, I mean, it isn't, you know, things aren't we're not, you know, it's not like dick and fart jokes here. You know, it's it's very it's very tame lately. Now, having said all that, there is some colorful language in today's [00:03:00] episode. So if that is something that you need to be forewarned about, you are officially on notice. There are some there's colorful language on today's program. All right. Okay. Elsewhere in this area of the show, if you, your firm, your employer, your conference, whatever it is that you have, your organization, if you need a keynote speaker, if you need a webinar on fraud or ethics, if that's something [00:03:30] you want, something you need, get in touch. Email. Oh my. Fraud at earmarks. Com to get more information on pricing and availability. All right. So Jonathan Walton we had we had a good conversation. Um, I would have to say I commend him for being so open about it.

Caleb Newquist: And we get into that a bit. He gets into that a bit. Um, and actually, you know that that's. I'm underselling it. We get into all of it. He tells his whole story, [00:04:00] and it's an amazing story. And if I didn't say it earlier, I think I did. But this is our first conversation with a victim of fraud. So that's kind of fun. And, you know, you also sad, but also fun. Uh, Jonathan was maybe the perfect victim of fraud to actually have on this show. Um, but I don't want anyone to get any ideas. If you are listening and you are a victim of fraud, that doesn't mean we're going to talk to you. I'm sorry. [00:04:30] I'm sure your story is good, and I. My heart goes out to you for your troubles. Uh, but Jonathan has a book, and that publisher, uh, hired a publicist that pitched us. And we liked the story, so we set it up. So. Yeah, this is not something we just, you know, that that we just, uh, got a random email and decided to have this guy on the show. No, it was it was pitched to us, and Zach and I talked about it and we agreed that we liked it. And so we had him on. And, uh, [00:05:00] I think you're going to enjoy it. So now that we've covered all that, let's get into let's get into the conversation between me and Jonathan Walton.

Caleb Newquist: Congrats on the book. I know that's a big deal.

Jonathan Walton: Thank you.

Caleb Newquist: How long was the process for you, like, beginning to end?

Jonathan Walton: Three years.

Caleb Newquist: Wow.

Jonathan Walton: Okay. Yeah. Three years.

Caleb Newquist: Because what year did the what year did the podcast launch?

Jonathan Walton: 20, uh, [00:05:30] early 2021. Okay. Yeah, that was the podcast Queen of the con. And then. And I'd never planned a book. Here's here's how you know, the universe works. And I say, like a lot of people in LA will tell you, I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual. You know, the kismet, the the fortune that intervened. So I, you know, kind of became a con artist expert through no fault of my own and no intention of my own. My story went public. I [00:06:00] started getting contacted by hundreds and hundreds of other victims of other con artists, telling me I inspired them, telling me they want to go after their con artists and asking for my help and advice. So, not knowing any better, I started helping and advising. And I say this in the book some people play golf on the weekends. I hunt con artists and, you know, investigating these cases. It suddenly dawned on me one day I'm like, oh my God, the exact [00:06:30] techniques that my con artist used to scam me are identical. Identical to the techniques being used in all these other cases. And and no one's ever made that realization before. No one's ever stumbled upon that. I did. So I wrote an article that eventually got published in the Huff Post about the red flags of every con artist and and a book agent, uh, gentle and free. God bless her. Called me up and is like, this is an amazing article. Like this would make a great book if if I can sell [00:07:00] it, can you write it? And I'm like, I guess, yeah, if you can sell it. Like I didn't believe she could sell it, you know.

Caleb Newquist: Right. Right, right.

Jonathan Walton: And by God, she sold it to Penguin Random House. And I started writing based on all these cases. So I never planned planned to be an author.

Caleb Newquist: It's kind of.

Jonathan Walton: Amazing thing that happened.

Caleb Newquist: That is that is kind of an amazing thing. And your story isn't dissimilar from others. I've heard from people who are just like, well, I just I had this life experience and then it then the book came later and it wasn't part of the plan. But anyway, I [00:07:30] want to go, I want to, I want to let's start at the beginning. Uh, where'd you grow up? Like, what's what? Where did, uh, yeah. Where'd you grow up? Was early life, like, let's let's get Jonathan Walton. The early years, uh, to level set.

Jonathan Walton: I have a crazy, uh, unbelievable, bizarre origin story. So I was born, and I kid you not, in Kingston, Jamaica.

Caleb Newquist: Okay?

Jonathan Walton: Caribbean island.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, sure.

Jonathan Walton: My family is originally from Lebanon and they moved [00:08:00] in the early 1900s. They were trying to, you know, they were fleeing Lebanon because they were the Christians getting persecuted in Lebanon.

Caleb Newquist: Sure. Yep.

Jonathan Walton: And, you know, hundreds and hundreds of families got on boats, set sail for a new life. They were trying to get to America, but wound up in Jamaica because Jamaica was a stop. You know, these boats would stop at places. And and it was such a traumatic experience for my my great my, my grandfather's mother died on that voyage giving birth to his brother. So [00:08:30] when they got to Jamaica, they're like, we're going to stay. And my family, you know, the the Lebanese part of my family got started in Jamaica, the American part of my family from my dad, who I didn't really I didn't grow up with a dad I never knew. My dad, uh, you know, he was, uh. He had some issues, and my mom left. Yeah. And, um. But he's American, uh, you know, French. Dutch. Irish mix. Yeah. And a mongrel. So, yeah, that's. I grew up for my, you know, childhood. I left Jamaica [00:09:00] at 17 years old to go to college and university in Florida.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, wow. Okay. So, like, the formative years. Everything. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Jonathan Walton: And I'll tell you the magic about growing up in the third world. You develop very quickly, uh, a never ceasing appreciation for the United States of America.

Caleb Newquist: I bet.

Jonathan Walton: Like, even sitting here now, talking to you like there's no power cut, like in Jamaica when you grow up in the third world. And it's just not just Jamaica. This is any kind of third world country. Power [00:09:30] cuts, water cuts, unstable everything. Roads or, you know, bad, um, domesticated animals are walking around like it's such a different life that when you get. When I got when I started living in the States at 17. It was just Paradise. And it's been Paradise ever since I remember. You know, I'm a TV producer. I remember working on Shark Tank and one of the editors there who grew up in LA, you know, very inside LA guy, um, making a really good living. He's in the union editor, making, like ten grand a week, and [00:10:00] he just had this dream. He's like, saving up all his money. He's going to retire and move to Bali. And I just remember telling him, I know that sounds sexy to you, Bali, but have you considered what it's like living in the third World? Like they're like going to a movie theater or even having a medical emergency. Like there's nothing like you, you know, it's the third world. Not first, not second, third. So you have to wait. Things that we take for granted aren't there, right? You know, you have a problem. You call the cops, maybe [00:10:30] they're there, maybe they're not ambulance. Probably not. Like, you know, so many things. We so many creature comforts, air conditioning, air conditioning, creature comforts we take for granted in America do not exist over there in the Third.

Caleb Newquist: World.

Jonathan Walton: Countries. So it has imbued me with a never ending appreciation for America in a way.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, I always I, I try to regularly thank the universe for air conditioning.

Jonathan Walton: Oh my.

Caleb Newquist: God. It's gonna be it's gonna be it's gonna be over 100 in Denver today. And so, like, this is [00:11:00] one of those days where I'm like, take time out of your busy day to just thank the universe for air conditioning.

Jonathan Walton: It's a beautiful thing.

Caleb Newquist: Okay, so you moved to the US when you were. You said 17 for college.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: And where did you go to college?

Jonathan Walton: I went first, and this is such a great plan. That was never a plan, but I recommend it to all kids. I went to community college, Broward Community College, which is because I didn't know, you know, my family. My mom, like, owns a department store in Jamaica. And, you know, I was a business major. That's what I thought I would do. Like, that's all [00:11:30] I knew. Business. So I was a business major. But then community college opened my eyes to all these other possible careers. And I changed majors a few times, and I eventually arrived at broadcast journalism. And, um, I didn't feel pressure because it's so much cheaper. Community college, the credit hours. Right? So I could change majors, and I'm not spending a fortune, not losing a fortune, as opposed to when you get to a big time four year university and you're two years in to your program, if you want to change your major, [00:12:00] you probably think again, because it's like, I'm too far in now. It's like sunk cost fallacy. I'm this far in. I gotta finish, right? But I luckily never was the victim of that. So I was a natural at broadcast journalism. And then I went to FIU and got my degree in broadcast journalism. And then I started working in television news. And it was it was a hell of an adventure. I got my first gig producing in Miami at WSVN TV in Miami. I was a special projects producer doing the local consumer segments Help Me, Howard and the medical segment. [00:12:30]

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I learned a ton. Like, I learned how to craft a story, and I learned a valuable lesson that would serve me for the rest of my life. And this is a this is a news reporter lesson. Like, you know, by the time your deadline is up, that's your story. Like, whatever you got, that's the story. And I've, I've worked on so many shows, you know, arguing with so many other producers who are like, yeah, but we can't do this because we don't have this guy and we need this guy. And it's like they don't have the experience of, listen, when the time's up, that's your story and make it work. [00:13:00]

Caleb Newquist: That's what you run with. Oh, 100%.

Jonathan Walton: And I made it work for many years. So yeah, that was a valuable lesson. And I started I became an on camera reporter. I was a feature reporter in San Antonio, which I only recently realized. That's why, uh, I went when I got scammed and I went to police and I went public. Yeah. It literally never occurred to me. What are people going to think? Never occurred to me. And I've come to learn [00:13:30] investigating hundreds of con cases and talking to hundreds of victims over the past eight years, That that is a chief concern for every victim. That's the reason they stay quiet. They're terrified. They are shackled by. What are people going to think? Never occurred to me. Yeah. It's shame.

Caleb Newquist: Big time shame.

Jonathan Walton: When I look back, um, my my on air gig in San Antonio, I'd never been on the air before. And, uh, that that first night is the reason I don't care what people think. At my [00:14:00] age. I'm 50 now. I was 24 when I got my first on air gig, and, um, I arrived to San Antonio. You know, it's it was market 37 at the time. Not a small small market, but on a huge market, like a big small town kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I was the feature reporter. Like the funny guy. Like, I'm doing light stuff around the city. So first, first day on the air, I'm, you know, I put my story together, I go out, shoot, I write a script, I get it edited, and I front it in the studio, and it's a huge hit. The anchors are applauding, I feel great. I walk [00:14:30] into the newsroom, all the producers and other reporters on their feet, standing ovation, applauding. I felt like the king of the world. You know, the my news director, my executive producer, Greg, God rest his soul, applauding like I was a hit. It was the highest high. I've never felt a high like that again. Uh, and then.

Caleb Newquist: Chased it ever since.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah. It's never come again. So. Right. 60s later. And this, you know, vicissitudes of life. 60s later, [00:15:00] I go to my desk and I get my first viewer voicemail.

Caleb Newquist: Right.

Jonathan Walton: Um, can I curse on this show? Because you can.

Caleb Newquist: Yes. Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: This is an angry Texas woman who I have rubbed the wrong way. She. So for this story, I just got a standing ovation for. She lays into me, you bald headed motherfucking fagot. You so fucking ugly. How the hell you get on TV? Bald headed, motherfucking [00:15:30] fagot. God, I was gay, but I was deep in the closet in denial. So that hit in a section of my.

Caleb Newquist: Brain landed a little too. A little too square, probably.

Jonathan Walton: It did. And and it shook me. And it's like I had this crisis quietly that I couldn't tell anybody about at the time. I wanted to quit. I went home that night and slept in the fetal position, crying like, what have I gotten myself in? I can't do this. Like, am I this, this genius who deserves [00:16:00] a standing ovation when I walk in the newsroom? Or am I this guy too ugly to be on TV? Like, what am I? Oh, my. Like, how am I going to I gotta quit, I can't, you know, it's just like I had this crisis and in the ensuing weeks, thank God. You know, work is such a therapy. I quickly figured out because I'm, you know, a reasonably smart guy. I quickly figured out, you know what? I can't I can't look to anyone for any opinion about me because I'll never get anything done.

Caleb Newquist: That's right.

Jonathan Walton: I gotta produce a story [00:16:30] a day. I don't even know how I did it, but I did. I got to cut a package a day, and it's not a news package. At least with regular news, there's someone who's dead and you can report a story. That's right. There's something to do. I gotta make this shit. I gotta find something interesting.

Caleb Newquist: Find something.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah, yeah. Every day. And, you know, so I quit, thank God, because within a few weeks, I just stopped caring.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: And then a few months later, I stopped the.

Caleb Newquist: Secret to life.

Jonathan Walton: It really is.

Caleb Newquist: As you well know, it's the secret to life.

Jonathan Walton: I [00:17:00] can't so multiply that by. So when all, all these years later when I got conned, never occurred to me. What are people going to think that was an afterthought? Because people reminded me. Aren't you worried about what are people like, am I? No I'm not.

Caleb Newquist: I've got a story.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I've got a.

Caleb Newquist: Story. That's right.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Okay. So, uh, so do you end up in Los Angeles after San Antonio or what happens next?

Jonathan Walton: No. Um, as a feature reporter, I got hired, uh, two years later, so I spent, like, two years in San Antonio and went over to CBS and Houston. Big market market. [00:17:30]

Caleb Newquist: Oh, yeah. Okay.

Jonathan Walton: Market 11 at the time, I think it's moved up to like market 9 or 8 or something. Okay, Houston, the big time. So I was doing my feature shtick and I had a segment called Walton's World for their morning show. Yeah. And I won four Emmys.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, God. Good for you.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And then. So by then, I'd put together. I didn't know it was called a sizzle reel. I put together, like, this concept of a show that I want to do called some stupid show. Funny journalism based on stuff I'd done, like the Deep Fried [00:18:00] Testicle Festival in Elderon, Wisconsin. Who's covering that? That should be national news, I thought so. Sure. Comedy central bit.

Caleb Newquist: Right.

Jonathan Walton: And they were going to give me a shot, and I moved out to LA. And then right when I got here, the writers strike happened in 2008.

Caleb Newquist: I okay, I remember.

Jonathan Walton: And so I never, you know, they were going to give me a shot on a show, some stupid show. And the writers strike happened and it went dead. And I started working in reality television. My first show was UFO [00:18:30] hunters for the History Channel. Some of the big shows I did Shark Tank Season four, which is the reason police took me seriously. I'll explain that. Yeah, I did American Ninja Warrior, I did. I've done some great shows. It's been a blast. And then I got conned.

Caleb Newquist: All right. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect segue. So? So what's happening? What's happening? Right up. Before you eat, you meet Marianne. What's going on in your life?

Jonathan Walton: I was working on Shark [00:19:00] Tank.

Caleb Newquist: Okay.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Um, biggest show I'd ever done. Yeah, working on Shark Tank, and I would. And she was a new neighbor. You know, we were living in this building in downtown, and we had this gigantic swimming pool. It's like when I say swimming pool, it's an understatement. It was like a luxury resort of a pool. It's. It's like 20 swimming pools combined. It's like if you look at it on an aerial, like a drone shot from the sky, it's like this giant oasis in the jungle of downtown LA. And it's the reason [00:19:30] we moved into this building, right? And we shared it with another building at one point when these buildings were built in the late 60s, 1967. It was the same owner. So the pool belonged to the both buildings. And then at some point, one of the buildings was sold for condos, but they still had an agreement about the pool. So, um, our landlord cheap skated and didn't want to pay for $400,000 of, of repairs because, you know, when pools age, you got to dig up and replace pipes that are leaking or whatever. But then the, the, [00:20:00] the, the replacement, they put down new tile and then our cheapskate landlord is like, ah, we didn't agree to an to an upgrade with the new tile. So we're not paying for this. So they took our pool away and looking back, I demonstrated all a con artist would need to know how to scam me. I put it out there. I took it upon myself to galvanize all the residents in our building. I put up fliers everywhere. I organized this effort. You know, I put up a flier, Mr. Poole want it back? Let's [00:20:30] band together and do something about it. And only now, looking back, I realize that was all this woman needed to size me up. She must have said to herself. Huh? This guy's a do gooder. I'm going to get him to do good for me.

Caleb Newquist: And what year is this? This is like 2013.

Jonathan Walton: 2013?

Caleb Newquist: 2013. Okay. All right. And so then. So then when do you meet? And she. Marianne, you you knew her as mayor, right?

Jonathan Walton: Right. She introduced herself to me as [00:21:00] Mayor Smith.

Caleb Newquist: Okay.

Jonathan Walton: Uh.

Caleb Newquist: When we met. And you met to to strategize.

Jonathan Walton: Well, again. And this is.

Caleb Newquist: Getting the pool back.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah. This is the red flag I write about in my book. Um, 99% of all con artists will enter their victim's life offering to help.

Caleb Newquist: Right.

Jonathan Walton: Because who doesn't love a helper?

Caleb Newquist: I mean, Mr. Rogers tells us to look for him.

Jonathan Walton: Exactly. So we're all. We're all getting set up to get scammed.

Caleb Newquist: We're all looking for helpers.

Jonathan Walton: She contacted [00:21:30] me off the flier and she offered to help. She said, quote, my boyfriend is a politician. This politician who I can't name for many reasons, of course, but he ultimately helped me bring her to justice in his own way. Politician in LA city. Uh, and he's also partner in a huge law firm. And she's like. And he sued this building before and they're scared of him and he can get the pullback. So I loved her immediately. I'm like wow this this this you know, uh, Sally field type character. And Norma Rae like she wants to make a difference here. Like come on [00:22:00] down I'm in. And we quickly became close friends. Like she she immediately started. She would wine and dine my husband and me at fancy restaurants. She'd buy us gifts. She'd. She'd take us on vacation. She. And this is another red flag I write about in the book. Red flag number two. She was too kind, too quick.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: She was. And how do you not love someone? A offering to help be showering you with praise and dinners. We loved her, right? Loved her. And [00:22:30] then the one two punch came in. So at that time, I had come out as gay, like eight years earlier. Seven years earlier. And I hadn't been home for Christmas in that whole time because my family, half of my family kind of disowned me, like I was not welcome. Like I was told to keep that away from them. Yeah. You know, they and the children. Um, so I.

Caleb Newquist: The children, the children.

Jonathan Walton: So I stayed away, you know, to the detriment of the children, I stayed away. Uh, [00:23:00] and I was raw from it. And as soon as I opened up about that with her, she pounced. She said, you know, my family disowned me. She's like, well, my family disowned me, too, because they're trying to get me disinherited. You know, she'd painted herself as from Ireland. She's like an Irish, you know. She had a Irish constitution with parchment paper hanging on her wall. And she said the signatory was her great great grandfather and the founder of Ireland. And she's [00:23:30] like Irish royalty. And she asked me not to tell the Irish Council that she's here because they would be upset. And, you know, she wanted she moved to America to get away from the strictures of, of, of, of that kind of noble life. You know, it's like she was a member of kind of like the royal family over there. She told me, now, I didn't know dick about Ireland. So she filled in with her knowledge of it, you know, and she knew that there very smart con artists are they're going to figure you out. And a lot of people say to me, you're [00:24:00] such a smart guy, Jonathan. How did you get conned? And I reply, like I say in the book, con artists don't outsmart you. They're not smarter than you. Con artists out feel you. They use your emotion to scam you. They create, they get you to love them, or they get you to love a situation they've created or feel strongly about it, or fear them, or fear a situation. Because once you're making decisions based on emotion with your heart and not your head, you're going to make bad decisions and you're going to get scammed. [00:24:30]

Jonathan Walton: So yeah, you know, almost overnight, we weren't just two friends in LA. We were two discarded souls discarded from our families. Like finding each other. She became like a sister to me and I loved her. And we would end phone calls with, I love you. I love you like I had no idea that while she's setting up this long con of me, she's scamming dozens and dozens of other people at the same time. She's she's impersonating a psychologist, and she has like a dozen [00:25:00] patients around LA seeing her, paying her for therapy and life coaching. Oh my God, she's scamming all of them because it's another red flag I write about in the book. And this keeps victims quiet. It's called the TMI red flag. You meet, you know, new coworker, new neighbor in my case, new friend, new love interest, boyfriend girlfriend. Immediately if they were a con artist, they pull this TMI flag out. They start sharing too much information. They start trusting you so quickly with their deep dark [00:25:30] secrets. And that does two things. Number one, it lulls you into the belief that, wow, this person must really think highly of me to trust me with all these deep, dark secrets of theirs. And number two, it lets you think I can trust them. Like let me. They've shared. Let me share. You know, we're human beings, right? It's like when you wave, the other person waves back when you say, hi, how are you doing? They say, fine, how are you? Like, we have these cues. Like we want to mirror the behavior [00:26:00] shown to us by other people. We're social creatures. So someone just starts sharing all their dark shit with you. You're going to share your dark shit with them. But here's the thing.

Caleb Newquist: Naturally. Reciprocate. Yep.

Jonathan Walton: Yes, but they're making up their stories, and you're sharing your real secrets.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Walton: So.

Caleb Newquist: Right.

Jonathan Walton: So by the time the money exchanges hands and they've scammed you, whether months later or years later, you're never going to tell anyone. You're not going to go to police. You don't want your dark secrets ending up in a police report or worse, a court [00:26:30] transcript.

Caleb Newquist: Right.

Jonathan Walton: You're on TV. That's how. Yeah, that's how con artists buy their victims. Silence. Because by the time they realize they got conned, the con artist knows so much about them they don't want. This is why the politician, while he helped me in secret, he would never go public. He wouldn't follow police report. He wouldn't testify in court. He wouldn't. He didn't want anything to do with it. He. But he gave me Intel and with with the understanding that I will never reveal who he is. And I never have.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: But this is how they buy your [00:27:00] silence. They get, you know, the TMI technique I write about red flag number 13, low down on the list. Not because it's not relevant, just because I had to order the red flags somehow, but they're all equally important.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Okay. So she's got your. She's got her hooks in you. Yes. Uh, unbeknownst to you. But you have this friend. You have this friend who you establish this quick friendship with. And and so then and and. Yeah. Generous, generous person with [00:27:30] you and your husband. Yes. And so and and and again, unbeknownst to you, like her, her the other part of her life, she's she's committing fraud. She's committing. She's conning other people. So how long how long does this go on? Before the first time that she asks you for money?

Jonathan Walton: Um. And again, I shudder, saying this out loud. She never asked me for money.

Caleb Newquist: Oh.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: Okay.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah. I mean, that's the kind [00:28:00] of puppet master she was. She created the situation where I offered.

Caleb Newquist: Um.

Jonathan Walton: And that's another trick because it's so much harder to prosecute. Is it a crime if you're offering money? You know, it gets it gets a little gray. Yeah, it gets a little gray. So she never asked for money. She just made me care about her like a, you know, I loved her as much as any gay man can love a woman. She was family. And when she got into trouble. So she had this €25 million inheritance coming [00:28:30] because her, her, her uncle Patrick Clark died and leaving this estate. And she's supposed to get. And her cousins, Fenton Tristan hate her and they're mad because she abandoned the family ten years ago when she moved to America. She didn't want to be part of the Irish nobility anymore. She wanted her life in America. She wanted to be anonymous. She got a job working as a travel agent in this luxury travel agency because she grew up. She told me on holiday, um, vacationing in the Pacific Islands. So she enjoyed [00:29:00] reveling in these stories of her childhood, vacationing there when she would sell vacations to Pacific Islands, to people. And she told me she was a number one sales person, and the president of French Polynesia would fly her out every couple of months to inspect their hotels. And this is a part of another red flag I write about in the book. In the book, the red flag of number five, I'm better than you.

Jonathan Walton: A professional con artist like Maire was and like many are walking around right now, they need you to think they're [00:29:30] better than you and everything. They need you to look up to them, to respect them, to to think, oh, I'm so lucky I know this person because they need to get your confidence. Con artist is short for Confidence Artist and these people are experts at pulling confidence out of you in them. So one of those red flags that she waved and they all wave. How lucky you are to know me. I'm the greatest. I'm the number one seller. The president of French Polynesia flies me. All of that was bullshit. But I thought it was true. Which leads to another red flag I write [00:30:00] about in the book that all con artists wave. Red flag number 12 stories from far away Faraway places. There is a magic in a mystique to stories from faraway places. Sure, a con artist will tell you they did this in Ecuador back in 2002. They were on the Olympic team in France back in 1996. They, you know, stories from faraway places are hard to confirm. And if we can't prove they were false. Human nature being what it is, we're that much more likely to accept it as true. So [00:30:30] stories from faraway places. That's a flag every con artist waves. And God knows Mer waved it with reckless abandon at me. This life in Ireland.

Jonathan Walton: She wasn't from Ireland. These cousins. And it was all bullshit, you know. But I fell for it because I loved her so. Her evil family's trying to get her disinherited. And at one point, uh, they pay off a dirty prosecutor, a dirty cop to to make up that she got a, you know, uh, stole money from her travel agency, [00:31:00] and they arrested her, and she was in jail. So the first money, I. I bailed her out. I bailed her out close to 5000. I didn't even think twice. People were like, well, were you reluctant? I'm like, no, this is a woman. My sister. Of course I'm going to bail her out. Yeah, I bailed her out and she paid me back the next day. Or rather, come to find out, the married politician paid me back. She scammed him too. Out of much more money than she got from me. Yeah. So. But yeah, [00:31:30] I. And this is another red flag I write about in the book. It's called Beak wedding. I got money back, so that made me trust her. And this is a common technique in a lot of investment scams and love scams. The con artist will give you some money up front. Yeah, because that makes you feel confident in them. I thought to myself, wow, this is a woman of her word. I loaned her money. She paid me back the next day. All right, so the next time I'm going to loan her money, I'm going to offer, I have no doubt she's going to pay me back.

Jonathan Walton: She's got this inheritance coming. [00:32:00] So over the course of that was like nearly two years into our friendship. I bailed her out and she paid me back the next day. And then, as this case goes on, where her family is trying to destroy her, and they trumped up these criminal charges against her. And there's, you know, she's hiring lawyers. And I'm learning all these stories through another red flag. I write about in the book. Um, red flag number six. Technology. Working con artists today use digital screens to sell you their stories. Sure. How [00:32:30] many times has someone texted you and you're like, hey, look what so-and-so texted me. Yep. Did did you ever think it's not so-and-so? It's it's a character. This person invented and created a Google account to text themselves under a different name, so they could show you that text. As someone who texted, you know, that's what they do. And I saw texts from Tristan, her, her cousin, and Fenton and the lawyer. The barristers in Ireland would email her. And I, I believed all these things were true because I saw the evidence. I saw their emails, right? It [00:33:00] never occurred to me that she just invented some email accounts and websites and stuff to to text me, and, you know, there's one inside.

Caleb Newquist: Sorry. Sorry to jump in, but but because of the so the because of the conflict, there isn't like she isn't getting visits from these people. They're not showing up at the like. You would never need any of these people in, in person because of the animosity, because of the conflict. And so this is the evidence that you have is easy to, [00:33:30] in this case, was easy to kind of, uh, manufacture because like, oh, here's the message I got from my asshole cousin that I've told you about so many times. Um, but you would never meet the asshole cousin, because then then you would find out that there is no asshole cousin.

Jonathan Walton: Exactly.

Caleb Newquist: Okay, so trust established. So. And and again, she isn't asking you for money. So what's the next occasion that [00:34:00] rises that that comes up where you think, this is my friend? She's in a jam. I'm going to help her.

Jonathan Walton: Well, it was death by a thousand cuts. Okay. Um. She. So. And again, these stories are all made up. Nothing's real that I'm about to say, but it felt real to me. And I'd worked in the news business for ten years. Right. You know, husbands knocking off their wives on an Australian vacation for $1 million insurance policy. That happens every day.

Caleb Newquist: Happens a.

Jonathan Walton: Lot. Yeah. You know, like this. So I know these [00:34:30] things. I'm worldly. That's right. And I think she's. She stands to inherit the equivalent of close to 10 million USD. Like, that's a lot of effing money. Of course, they would try to, you know, get her arrested because there's a clause in her uncle Patrick Clark's will that said, any heir convicted of a felony is, you know, forfeits the inheritance.

Caleb Newquist: Okay.

Jonathan Walton: So in my mind, I'm like, of course they're going to try to get you convicted of a felony. And as luck would have it, the owner of the travel agency was best friends with her cousin. [00:35:00] They grew up together. So in my mind I'm like, of course they're friends. They're going to, you know, he's probably going to get a cut of the money. Like, yeah, they're going to make. I knew it, I knew they'd set her up. And I'm determined to help her. So next thing I know, they freeze her bank accounts and she has no money to live on. So I start paying her rent and I start loaning her cash to live on. And I think nothing of it, because I'm confident that she's going to get this inheritance and I'm going to be friends with a millionaire and she's going to [00:35:30] pay me back. No problem. She's already paid me back in the past. I have no qualms. So over the like almost two years, little money here, little money there, little money here. The final ask comes when. And I preface this by saying, at that point, you know, I'm a television producer. I didn't know anything about criminal court. I hadn't been to court in 20 years. And when I was in court, it was for a traffic ticket, and I lost, right? So that's all I know about court. Like, I don't I don't know. So she comes to me and says, [00:36:00] you know, for this her lawyer, she shows me the requisite emails and texts from her lawyers in LA. You know, this case, they can prove it. It was fake and made up. It's going to get dismissed. But I need $50,000 for lawyers and court fees. And by that point, I'd loaned her, like close to 30,000 cash.

Jonathan Walton: And I didn't have 50,000, you know. Um, so I let her charge my credit card $50,000 to pay this because in my mind, I'm like, well, lawyers, you ever try to? I remember I tried to hire a lawyer to look at a contract. He wanted [00:36:30] $10,000. It's like lawyers are expensive. They are especially in LA and court costs, whatever. So it made sense to me. It made sense to me. So I let her charge my credit card 50,000 to pay the, you know, this court thing and get her inheritance. And we celebrated and had went to dinner and had champagne, and now I'm going to get the money, blah, blah, blah. Then I go to pick her up one Sunday for brunch and she's doubled over crying. Now she she can cry at the drop of a hat. Right? [00:37:00] And I there's no way you could have convinced me those tears weren't real. But they weren't. She's just an actress. So I remember coming. What's wrong? And I held her and her tears wet my shirt. And she's convulsing and I'm rocking her. And I'm like, what's wrong? What's wrong? And she tells me that the judge is angry at her. The judge in her case because me allowing her to charge my credit cards to pay her court thing, it's money laundering. And I'm like, is it? Is that what money laundering is? Okay? I mean, I [00:37:30] don't I've never laundered money. I don't know, I read about it in like, I don't know exactly what, but okay. And again, I'm a busy guy. I work 60, 70 hours a week. Yeah. Like so. All right. It's money laundering. So he's going to punish her. It's not a felony. He's just going to put her in jail for 30 days to teach her a lesson.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: So that was that was the explanation I got. She goes to jail for 30 days. She calls me collect every day, and two weeks in, I tell her.

Caleb Newquist: And when you get that collect call, is she actually calling [00:38:00] from.

Jonathan Walton: Yes. She was actually in jail. And this is the brilliance of con people, right? They are definitely able to meld the real and the unreal. They stitch it together so you can't tell what's real and what's fake. So here, here's how I'll explain it. So yeah, she was in jail. She called me collect. Um, and, uh, I want to come visit her. She's like my sister. I tell her two weeks in, I'm coming to see you. No, no, no, I don't want you to see me like this. I can't, I can't. No, no, she forbids me from coming to see her in [00:38:30] jail. But I'm. It's my sister in jail. Of course I'm going to go see her. So I don't know if you've ever visited anyone in LA County jail. But here's how it goes. You got to go to the website and you have to create a Facebook type profile on the jail's website. You got to upload your ID, you got to upload a picture. You got to write a thing about yourself and all your birth date and all your info, and then you got to click on the inmate you want to visit. And that's when that was the beginning of her end. I clicked on her, the inmate [00:39:00] I want to visit, and I just was I turned white because on the jail's website, in black and white on the computer screen, it said, you know, you can see what the inmates in for, what they're convicted of, felony grand theft. And I'm like, wait a minute. I was producing a show called Blues Traveler for the Travel Channel at the time, and I just remember clear as day, I'm like, I gotta, I gotta, and I tell my executive producer, I got to go.

Jonathan Walton: Do I have an emergency I gotta deal with? And he's like, go, go, you can go so [00:39:30] quickly. I drive down to the courthouse because all I see is felony grand theft. I don't know what that's about. I don't know any other details other than that's what she's in there for, not money laundering. Right. And it's a felony. It's not a slap on the wrist like a felony, a felony, you know? So in my mind, I'm like, so she's not getting the inheritance. So I still was believing there's some inheritance to come and worried about her. Right. So I go to the courthouse, I go to the clerk, and I ask for, you know, had a case number, and I asked for all the records on this case number, this felony [00:40:00] grand theft case. And I get, you know, it takes a couple hours, and I wait, um, and it just like time moves, so I'm, like, waiting, like, I need to find out. I need to find out. Finally, I get the court records printed out, and I sit in the corner and just start reading them. And I realize everything she told me about this case was a lie. This wasn't money laundering. She was convicted. She pled guilty to stealing 200,000 from the travel agency. And that 50,000 she got from me in that last [00:40:30] 50,000 was to pay a plea deal to show the judge she's going to pay the money back. And that's why he only gave her 30 days as opposed to five years.

Caleb Newquist: Right?

Jonathan Walton: So she scammed me, like robbing Peter to pay Paul so she could pay her plea deal and get out in 30 days. And boy, uh, that's all I was, I was livid. I was upset, I went home, I collapsed in my husband's arms. I, um, it was I was just devastated, I felt forsaken. Like, how could you [00:41:00] let this happen to me? God, I'm a good person. I was trying to help her. I've tried to help people my entire life. Like, what the fuck? Right? You know, I felt just. It just shakes you.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Now, let me ask you this did at this point when you. So the stages of grief kind of thing. But like the the was there was there ever a point in kind of the aftermath of you like learning the truth? Did you have like, that usual suspects moment where you started thinking about your past with her and like [00:41:30] all these things, like did stuff all like, oh my God, that doesn't add up and that doesn't add up, like did did did some of that start to happen at that point?

Jonathan Walton: Absolutely.

Caleb Newquist: Or soon after?

Jonathan Walton: Yeah, yeah. Very soon after. Because I and again I credit the TV producer and me. I started producing this. Yeah, I needed to figure out. I need to figure her out in the beginning. You know, they say lies are like rats. When you find one, it means there are a thousand others hiding. And I knew that. I knew I'm [00:42:00] about to find a thousand others hiding. And by God, I did. And I just unraveled everything. I ran a background check on her. I hired private detectives. She had. She had a long history of fraud and grand theft charges in multiple states before I met her. You know, I, I in the moment, I didn't know she's a con artist. I just knew she scammed me and I confronted her, you know, I played it cool. I picked her up from jail, and I pretended like, I like, we're still best friends, and I love her. Yeah, and I'm recording this because I think, boy, you [00:42:30] know, I'm going to use this evidence for police. I had no idea police wouldn't give a flying fuck. But in my mind, I'm like, I'm gathering evidence now. Like, I got my producer hat on and I can act. You know, I was the baker in Into the Woods in college. I can act. So I'm acting like everything's fine. Yeah. How? Oh, we missed you. Good. So. And when I finally drive her back home and we park in the parking garage, that's when I confront her and I record it. And I was hoping for. Honestly, I was hoping for what? Every victim hopes for an apology.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. [00:43:00]

Jonathan Walton: Some kind of remorse. But, no, she just denied it. I'm like, you've been scamming us out of money this whole time. No, that's not true, Jonathan. That's not. And tears would well up like she couldn't believe I was accusing her.

Caleb Newquist: Right.

Jonathan Walton: Like Demi Moore in ghost. Kind of tears. Like they're so good. And especially even though I'm a gay guy, I'm still a guy. Right? And the power of a woman crying. It's still powerful to me. Sure, sure. It stops me. So in that moment, she's welling up. [00:43:30] I'm thinking. I'm conflicted. I'm like, oh, I should. No, no. That's fake. That those aren't real. I know those aren't real. Because all these lies, these court records. That's real. This is just another performance that I'm not going to fall for it this time, sister. So I tell her, you know, the next time I'll see, you will be in criminal court. And days later, you know, I put together my case. I print out all the evidence I have, whatever. And I go to police, I pick, and I recommend this in the book. If you're going to go [00:44:00] to police with a complicated con story, do it at 5 a.m. on a Sunday morning because no one's there but the cop. Yeah, you have time. You have time. You have privacy. No one's. Because if you know people are behind you, waiting like that really screws up what you got to do. Yeah, but I. I went to the LAPD downtown 5 a.m. on a Sunday, and I started telling the cop what happened to me, and he listened, you know, for like, 20 minutes, half an hour he listened. And [00:44:30] then in the end, he said, well, I'm sorry to say, but, you know, this isn't a crime. And I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, you gave her the money, so it's not a crime. You know, you need to hire a lawyer and sue her in civil court, but there's nothing we can do. It's not a crime. And again, this is a guy with a badge. I just accepted what he said initially as gospel, like. Oh, I guess I don't know what a crime is. And.

Caleb Newquist: Right. [00:45:00]

Jonathan Walton: And I'm dazed. I'm in a dazed and I'm I'm. I'm walking out, you know, crestfallen and wondering. What do I do now? And as I put my hands on the door to leave, like he's 20ft behind me drinking coffee. No one else is in the police station at that hour. It's like 530 at this point. And I push the door open to leave. And again, I'm not a religious guy, but I'm very spiritual. I do believe there's a higher purpose for everything. Guardian angel. Something, something [00:45:30] something yelled at me. No no No, this. This is. No, this cannot be. And I'm angry, talking to myself like wrestling with whatever's talking to me. No, no. And I turn back around, and this time, I'm. I'm not shouting, but I'm loud and I'm passionate. And I turn back around and I tell the officer, this does not make any sense. And I start dumping out all the evidence I have on his desk, like getting into position. [00:46:00] And I say, when those scammers, you know, scam the elderly out of ten grand pretending to be from the IRS, the elderly give them the money. But it's a crime. They're prosecuted, right? Bernie Madoff, his victims gave him the money.

Caleb Newquist: That's right.

Jonathan Walton: It's a crime. Like logic. Hit it. I'm like, what you are saying does not compute when when when a guy goes to 7-Eleven with a gun and demands money, the cashier gives the money. Like, how is giving the money like that doesn't make any sense. And I start dumping my [00:46:30] evidence. Now I'm like, Vanna White, Wheel of Fortune. I'm like, these are text messages. These are emails. These are other witness statements from other victims I found like she's a scammer. Like this is a crime. And you know, I start telling the story again and he looks at all my props, all my papers. Yeah. Um. And he pauses and he seems impressed. He's like, he's never seen anything like it. I think because he says, what do you do for a living? And [00:47:00] I said, I'm a television producer. And he's like any shows I would have heard of. So I pull out the big one. I'm like, yeah, Shark Tank. His eyes light up.

Caleb Newquist: Oh boy.

Jonathan Walton: He's like, Shark Tank, huh? Shark tank? I've been trying to pitch something to the sharks for years.

Caleb Newquist: No. Come on.

Jonathan Walton: And I had him. Yeah, I knew I had him, and even though I had signed a mountain of paperwork to work on Shark Tank, where I explicitly [00:47:30] agree never to help anyone get on. Yeah. I'm desperate. I'm like, listen, buddy.

Caleb Newquist: Of course. Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: I'll help you. If you help me, I'll tell you how to get on Shark Tank. And he he agreed to take a police report. He said, okay, I'll take a police report. But listen, I don't think there's anything we can do. Like, no one's going to. You know, this is not like, you know, I don't think we can help you. Like, I'll take a police report, and I'll tell you what. Here's what you got to do after this report is filed. You need to call about your case every day.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: And I said to him, [00:48:00] what does that mean? Because you think when you file a police report, all right, it's in their hands, they'll let me know. I'll wait on the call from them. But no, he's like no. As soon as you leave here, by the end of today, there'll be 500 other police reports on top of this one. So you're going to disappear? Yeah, but every time you call about your case, it gets taken from the bottom of the pile placed at the top, and there's some discussion. Who's this guy calling? You know, they're talking amongst themselves about this guy. So that was the greatest piece of advice I've ever received [00:48:30] in my life to this day. And I called about my case every day. Every day. Morning, evening, afternoon.

Caleb Newquist: If I may. The real question that's on everyone's mind at this point. Did that guy end up on Shark Tank?

Jonathan Walton: No, no, I gave him the advice I gave. He never followed through.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, okay. See, he didn't call every day. He didn't call every day.

Jonathan Walton: Well, I mean, you know, to get on Shark Tank, you gotta put on a show. Yeah, you gotta [00:49:00] demonstrate your product. You gotta. You know, I told them what to do, and it's what anyone, any entrepreneur would do. You gotta. You still have to enter through the website and agree to all the terms and upload a video. Um, no, he never did.

Caleb Newquist: All right.

Jonathan Walton: Which I'm glad because that would be a problem.

Caleb Newquist: All right, so you're calling every day and people are saying at some point, does the person on the other end of the line say, oh, is Jonathan Walton calling about his case again? Okay.

Jonathan Walton: Oh, yeah. They were sick of me. They were sick of me. But that's the point. [00:49:30]

Caleb Newquist: But that's.

Jonathan Walton: The point. Squeaky wheel. Yes.

Caleb Newquist: Right, right.

Jonathan Walton: Okay. So interesting.

Caleb Newquist: Do things Prague. So do you think is there, is there progress like quickly. Slowly like what? What. Well what happens.

Jonathan Walton: At this point? You know, I'm calling about my case every day, but I have zero confidence in the system. So I start my own investigation. You know, I'm a TV producer. I'm a journalist. Um, I the first thing I do is I create a blog, uh, about what happened, and I said I didn't know other [00:50:00] than she scammed me. So I had her picture and I said, do not believe this woman. Here's how she got this money out of me. She's a scammer. Like, she scammed me, like, don't give her money. Don't believe a word she said. She's a pathological liar, blah blah blah. I didn't know she was a con artist. Otherwise I would have called her a con artist at that point, right? I just knew she scammed me and I'm warning other people and I start hearing from other people in LA. She scammed me. I thought she was a psychologist. She scammed me. She was a psychic. She's like, I'm hearing all these other stories and I'm compiling them. And every time, you know, and I'm. Meanwhile, I'm [00:50:30] calling about my case every day. Calling about my case. Three weeks in, I get a call from a detective. Hey, I'm the detective now assigned to your case. You can stop calling. Um, I'll be working on it from here on in. I'm like, great, here's my number. Blah blah. Great. Then a few days later, that same detective calls me. Hey, I got reassigned. So your case is now getting assigned to not a detective. An officer trying to make detective. I'm like, oh, great. So, like a dunce.

Caleb Newquist: The Jake, [00:51:00] the JV team.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's how it felt like. Yeah. You're so unimportant that we're not even going to give you a detective. We're going to give you this guy who can't seem to get up to detective. For years now, he's been trying to make detective, and he can't get it, so he'll he'll he'll he'll take over. Great. So, you know, but I was still thrilled that, you know, it's progressing. So I go down and this guy interviews me many times for hours on end. And unlike after like the third interview, I didn't know. When you talk to police, [00:51:30] they're recording everything. You. The minute you walk into the police station, they're recording you, right?

Caleb Newquist: Of course.

Jonathan Walton: You didn't know that. Yeah. Um, so by the third time he tells me. Listen, I watched your interview with my sergeant, and we believe you. I'm like my interview. You watched. You recorded? Yes. Well, you believe me? Okay. Thank God. Like, how could it get this far if you don't believe me? Well, you know.

Caleb Newquist: So what's been happening so far?

Jonathan Walton: Exactly. So again. No. And [00:52:00] so I would go on. Every time I'd find a new victim, I'd send it to this officer trying to make detective. And. And it takes him. It took a year. It took almost an entire 11 months. And then some change from the day that I went to police, to the day they arrested her and filed, you know, charges for grand theft, and they arrested her and a crazy quirk. And again, you need to go with your gut, people. Every time I'd send this officer new victims, he would get mad at me. He'd be like, [00:52:30] these people have nothing to do with your case. Like they need to go file their own police report in their own city, like you have. They have nothing to do. And I'm like, how can that be? They were scammed by the woman who scammed me. Like this is evidence. What do you mean? Like that makes no sense, but. Okay. But I would still send them. Still send them victims. I found, like, dozens of victims in LA, and he ignored all of them. So cut to I was right. The case gets assigned to a prosecutor. Oh my God, I dealt with five different deputy D.A.. Like, the system is really bizarre. [00:53:00] Yeah, and each time it gets handed to a new Da, they're starting from scratch. I gotta explain everything again.

Caleb Newquist: Yep.

Jonathan Walton: So finally, it gets on the desk of deputy Da Jeff McGee, who is a brilliant, kind, compassionate man. Thank God for him, because in working all these other cases with all these other victims, they they're not as fortunate. They have horrible DA's. So my Da turned out to be a gem. And he says to me, you know, we're heading for trial now. The trial took a whole other year. Tons of court dates, 40 something court dates. Yep. [00:53:30] She's schlep into the court date. Um, during the preliminary hearing. You know, when I knew her, she was an Irish heiress with Jimmy Choos and hair and makeup for the for the preliminary hearing. Where a judge is going to decide if there's enough evidence for trial. She shows up looking like a homeless bag woman on crutches. On crutches.

Caleb Newquist: Right.

Jonathan Walton: She pulled out the crutches. And because there is a God, the tea I'd managed to get, um, Rob Hayes from the local ABC station to cover the story that day.

Caleb Newquist: Oh.

Jonathan Walton: So [00:54:00] his story and this is on my website. This is online. If you search Mayor Smith KABC, he's like, when Mary Ann Smith showed up to LA's criminal court, she was sporting a pair of crutches. But Jonathan Walton said, save your sympathy. And they cut to a soundbite of me crutches. Like we knew she was going to pull something today, but crutches? Come on.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: With that same face. So.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Walton: Oh, it was beautiful. Because she the last thing in her mind that day when she's, like, putting on her crutches and her fucked up hair and her dirty clothes [00:54:30] to look homeless. The last thing she thought was that a TV camera was going to be shoved in her face. Um. Oh, such a great moment in my life. I played that back in my head and on my website over and over again. It brings me joy. So, um, we eventually get to, you know, we're on the way to trial now, and the Da, the final Da. Who's going to do the trial? Jeff McGee says to me, well, do you have any other victims? I'm like, yeah, um, dozens. I well, did you submit them to police? I'm like, yeah, I did. And he said, they don't [00:55:00] have nothing to do with my case. And he looks at me like, what do you mean? They have everything to do with your case? I'm like, I know that's what I said. You know, God. But at the point, you know, the trial is days away now, so he's taking it upon himself to call all these victims. Because now this cop is on medical leave. He wasn't available to to do any investigation.

Caleb Newquist: The officer trying to become a detective.

Jonathan Walton: Right?

Caleb Newquist: Medical leave. [00:55:30] Right.

Jonathan Walton: That's all we're told. Like he's not available. So it's. And it's. And he was.

Caleb Newquist: Sick of making. He's sick of trying to make detective.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah. He's at home. Sick of trying to make detective. Um, and the Da. Jeff McGee says to me, listen, this could blow up in my face because I'm not supposed to call these. If I call these victims, I could be called to testify as a witness. So we're running a risk here. But he's like, I don't have a choice. I need to hear their stories. I need to decide who's testifying. Like so. I need to call them. Even though this is improper, it's not illegal. I [00:56:00] can just be called as a witness now because I made first contact. I'm like, do whatever you got to do, man, I don't know. Like, this is all new to me. Like, I tried to get these people. Like I begged and pleaded, but no one listened. So he calls a bunch of victims, decides who's going to testify. The trial lasts three days. And a jury deliberated for three hours and found her guilty. Found her guilty, but her entire defense was. And it was a brilliant defense. And her defense would have worked. Here's why her defense didn't work, in my opinion. She [00:56:30] was 49 years old at the time.

Caleb Newquist: Okay.

Jonathan Walton: And she could not find a single solitary person to testify on her behalf.

Caleb Newquist: Wow.

Jonathan Walton: That spoke volumes if you're a jury. Because here's here's her defense. Jonathan Walton is a TV producer. That's true. He is? Yep. Jonathan Walton is making a movie about this, a documentary. I got a camera in the courtroom. I was planning to make a documentary. That's [00:57:00] true. Yeah. So two truths. So Jonathan Walton is making all this up for a good story? That's a lie. I'm not making anything up. But if you're a jury, reasonable doubt is a is a is a space you can drive a truck through. Of course. Yeah.

Caleb Newquist: So. Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: How do we know Jonathan Walton's not this crazy obsessed producer trying to make a movie, you know? But she couldn't find anyone to on her behalf to to to to attack Jonathan Walton. Just her lawyer who was a public defender making close to 300 grand a year. I don't know, public defenders made that much. It's [00:57:30] crazy. They pay them a lot. Public defenders in LA County, his salary was like 270,000. It was public record. So? So thank God the jury found her guilty. She goes to jail. This is in January of 2019. She gets a five year sentence, the maximum for scamming me. And the judge lays into her, calls her a psychopath. Said that you showed no remorse as Mr. Walton was, you know, telling you how grievously he was injured by what you did to him. You showed no remorse and you know you're getting the maximum you. [00:58:00] So she goes to jail. But then a magical thing called COVID happens, and California releases, uh, 10,000 inmates, right? To try to, you know, stem the spread of Covid. So she gets out, you know, not even two years. You know, one year and 11 months. She's out and I get a text on my phone because you can sign up for this system if you're a if you're if you're a victim and your perp goes to jail. I forget the name of it. Link something something. So I'd signed up. So I got a text in December of 2020. [00:58:30] Um, your mare got out. I'm like, fuck. And I start telling all the other victims I'm like, she's out, she's out, she's out. Nobody knows where she is. And then I start the podcast Queen of the con to tell my story. Yeah. You know, um, and we have all the recordings from the trial, and it was a huge, you know, we're at, like, we're closing in on 16 million downloads now. Queen.

Caleb Newquist: Oh, wow. Congrats. Amazing.

Jonathan Walton: Yeah, it was this huge hit [00:59:00] and I don't know where mare is. I just know she disappeared. I have no idea where she is. I, you know, then I start getting contacted by listeners of the podcast who are like, hey, I think she's my new neighbor. Hey, I saw her at the supermarket. Hey. Because, you know, like, true crime listeners are kind of obsessive, which is a great thing. Yeah, which is a great thing. So they start sending me pictures and videos and stuff. So now I know exactly where she is. She moved to the state of Maine.

Caleb Newquist: Oh my God.

Jonathan Walton: And she's living [00:59:30] in Maine in a far away.

Caleb Newquist: As physically far away as possible.

Jonathan Walton: Which pleased me because I'm like, yeah, you should be scared of me. Yeah. And guess what?

Caleb Newquist: This country isn't big enough for the both of us. It's barely big enough for the.

Jonathan Walton: Oh, how true that would turn out to be. Yes. So one of the. You know, after I started the blog, in addition to all these victims I'm hearing from, I heard from a detective in Northern Ireland.

Caleb Newquist: Okay.

Jonathan Walton: He had been looking for her for ten years.

Caleb Newquist: Oh my God.

Jonathan Walton: So she didn't. She's not from Ireland, [01:00:00] but she did move to Northern Ireland in, like 2001. She met a guy online, moved there to see him, stayed married him. A postal worker named Stephen Smith, which explains her last name. And while she was in Northern Ireland for eight years, she scammed dozens of people out of, you know, close to half $1 million and disappeared.

Caleb Newquist: Disappeared, man.

Jonathan Walton: And they'd been looking for her ever since. But her her legal name is Marianne Elizabeth Smith. That's why when I met her, she was Mary Smith. You know, [01:00:30] so she'd established this new identity in LA northern Ireland. Had no idea where she was until my blog. And then he tells me in 2017, we're going to start extradition proceedings. But it's a long it's a long shot because she's a US citizen extraditing US citizen out of America. It's hard.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: It's hard.

Caleb Newquist: Okay.

Jonathan Walton: It's a high bar. High bar. So every time I find a new victim, in addition to sending it to the officer who wasn't very helpful, um, I'm sending it to Northern Ireland. This is what she's up to. This is [01:01:00] another thing she did. This is another thing she did. So when I find out she's in Maine, I tell the officer, Northern Ireland, how's this extradition coming, dude? She's in Maine now. She's living out of an Airbnb in Maine. And she would move around Airbnb to Airbnb to Airbnb. So lo and behold, she starts up new scams. Shocker. She starts raising money to run rescue missions in the Ukraine. Her scams are very, you know, news timely like you know they they click. So she's she's raising thousands of dollars [01:01:30] to rescue to run rescue missions in the Ukraine. And then I shut that I shut that scam down from LA.

Caleb Newquist: Mhm.

Jonathan Walton: Uh because I report uh, the, the website she was using, it wasn't GoFundMe. She'd used GoFundMe in another scam in the past to raise money for her. A dead daughter. Uh, $17,000 for cystic fibrosis. I shut that scam down back in, you know, in LA. But this I forget the name go go something site. And I alerted them like, hey, this woman's a convicted con woman. Here's she was on the news in crutches, [01:02:00] like, you know, so I shut that scam down and she starts a new scam. And this is the scam that I think got Northern Ireland off their ass, because Northern Ireland is a deeply religious Christian country.

Caleb Newquist: Yep.

Jonathan Walton: So this new scam she starts, she changes her name to Lucia Malaya. Lucia Malaya. And she becomes a high a satanic high priestess. She starts a satanic church.

Caleb Newquist: Fabulous.

Jonathan Walton: And and one of her new victims. [01:02:30]

Caleb Newquist: 0135. Honestly.

Jonathan Walton: It's brilliant.

Caleb Newquist: Your donations are tax deductible.

Jonathan Walton: Exactly. So I get a video from one of the victims of her in a ceremony. She's wearing a black robe, wielding a giant silver knife, machete kind of thing. Dark candlelight flickering in her eyes and on the gleam of the knife. And she says, oh, father Satan, I summon you, my father. Like it's like from a fucking movie. But it's [01:03:00] real. This is her satanic church. So I said that to Northern Ireland. I'm like, this is what she's up to now, man. Here's the latest Airbnb. She's living out of. And like three months later, five federal agents bang on her Airbnb. The same address that I'd sent to the Northern Ireland detective. And they arrest her. She's getting extradited. And this was back in February of 2024. So she's been sitting in jail [01:03:30] in Northern Ireland since then. Trial is scheduled for September of this year. I don't know when you guys are going to air this, but Zoom.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, probably later this month.

Jonathan Walton: I plan to be there for the trial because I need to look at her.

Caleb Newquist: Right.

Jonathan Walton: I want her to know, like, you know why you're in jail in Northern Ireland? You. Cuz you effed with me, you know? And I revel in the untold numbers of people I saved from her. Because, yeah, if I didn't do what I did, she would [01:04:00] just go on to continue scamming people, scamming people, scamming people, scam you know? So the podcast is a huge hit. I start doing multiple like other seasons. I become this con artist expert. I'm working in all these cases. Um, I realize what the red flags are. I can't believe how is nobody written about this before? You know, I read all the con artist books that are out there, and they're all so condescending to victims, you know? And I name checked one of them, but my publisher made me take it out, so I'm just I'm referencing [01:04:30] it, you know, um, in passing this author, it's the best seller. This author is like, well, you know, I've personally never been conned, and I don't know any con artists, like, like, oh, like you're too smart for that, huh? Like, all these books are written by, like, professors and authors.

Jonathan Walton: Like they have. They have no idea. They have no idea what it's like. Let me let me tell you something from the front line, sister. And that's where I came up with that phrase. That's so true. Con artists don't outsmart you. They out feel you. I've lived it So, [01:05:00] so, lo and behold, like I have a book out now, like with the 14 red flags. These are the red flags all of them use. And once I point them out, they're easy to spot. But if, if if you don't know what they are, you'll just. You'll think this new person in your life who's so kind so quickly and wants to help you and, you know, um, you just think they're a great person. And you, you become, you start a relationship with them and then they bypass your intellect. They get into your heart and they rob you blind. And by the time you realize it, [01:05:30] you're backed into a corner. You don't want to tell anyone because they know. They know your secrets and they're going to use them.

Caleb Newquist: I mean, Jonathan, this is this has been great. Uh. So fun. I want to ask you, I mean, because you are you're an investigator now, and this is this is like what you this is what you spend your weekends doing, as you said. Yeah. One thing you said in the book that I thought was pretty interesting, and Zach and I talked about this a bit, but, um, you know, the role of banks and payment processors in our financial system [01:06:00] talk about stuff that people take for granted. We take all that stuff for granted. Like when we go to the grocery store, we just tap our card and like the money goes and we get the stuff and the money goes where it's supposed to. And but, you know, somebody like mayor who is leaving, like, granted, she's she's changing identities and she's moving constantly on the run and trying to be all these different people at once. But there is still a paper trail with all that. So I'm I'm curious about [01:06:30] what you think about the role of processors and banks, like if, if that if someone like her with a background like hers with a rap sheet like hers, if that's kind of in, if that's known, how is it that a person like that can still open a bank account, can still like, use these kinds of services that allow them to continue to perpetrate crimes against people? Because if if if a sex offender.

Caleb Newquist: If a convicted sex offender. [01:07:00] Um, pays their debt to society and is out in the world, they have to register and their neighbors are notified. And like there's there's kind of this, this system in place that allows people to know that there is this person, this type of a person in their midst. It seems to me that fraudsters it may be it might be more there. I don't know. I'm talking out of my ass here a little bit, but I'm I'm willing to bet. I'm willing to bet there's more victims of fraud than there are of, you [01:07:30] know, child abuse or or sexual misconduct or whatever. So my question is, why isn't there something like that in place that helps track con artists like mare?

Jonathan Walton: I banks are 1,000%, albeit inadvertently, complicit.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: They are complicit because you're right. And I raise this point in the book again and again. Um, and with mare in particular, here's an example. After she [01:08:00] was convicted and went to jail for stealing $200,000 from the travel agency, she used PayPal to steal the money. She used PayPal. Okay. Um, uh, she created a PayPal account in the same name as the company and took, you know, every eighth or ninth vacation payment into her own PayPal. So PayPal banned her. Paypal banned her.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: But then what does she do for new scams? She just creates an LLC and opens another PayPal account. Right. [01:08:30] The LLC is not banned. So it's this giant loophole, so many loopholes that exist in banking and our financial sector where just because a convicted financial fraudster is banned, they can create an S Corp or an LLC in a whole different identity and they're not banned. That's what she kept doing. She kept creating all these other companies, you know, and it just it's staggering to me. As advanced as we are technologically, we know this woman's a scammer. So we're not going to let her open an account. [01:09:00] But she's the CEO of this new LLC that will allow to open an account. It's so effed up.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me. None. And like you say, there are sophisticated, uh, mechanisms in place that flag this kind of stuff all the time.

Jonathan Walton: Yes.

Caleb Newquist: And it is surprising that it is that I don't know that there aren't better, I guess, guardrails for [01:09:30] people who have been convicted of fraudulent, um, crimes. Well, anyway, um, one question that I have is these con artists like mare. I mean, you know, a lot of con artists, they they kind of like, they're just moving from con to con to con to con. And at some point you think, Well. Maybe they have enough money or they're tired of being on the run or, I don't know, like, what do you think motivates these people? [01:10:00] And I think there's an example in the book of somebody who is already rich. Like there's people that, that, that for no financial reason would need to con people. So from all your, you know, from your personal experience and from the experience of, you know, in investigating other con artists, what what do you think motivates these people to just go around and conning people for, for basically for a living? This is what they've decided to do.

Jonathan Walton: And [01:10:30] the answer will surprise you based on my experience. Um, it's not about the money.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah.

Jonathan Walton: It's not about the money. The money in a lot of these cases is secondary. There are so many cons, mayor executed on so many people. She pretended to be best friends with Jennifer Aniston. Jennifer Aniston would text her, and she tricked this one woman that she's best friends with Jennifer Aniston. She invites the woman to come to the Golden Globes with her and Jennifer Aniston. She knows that's never going to happen because she's not best friends with Jennifer Aniston. But you know, we live in LA, we work in entertainment. So [01:11:00] it's not shocking that you know someone who's friends with Jennifer Aniston, right? So lo and behold, they rolls around. Golden Globes are on. Um, the morning of this woman has picked out her dress. She's excited and they're texts her. You know what Jennifer Aniston is feeling under the weather? She doesn't want anyone to come with her on the red carpet. So I'm going to have to renege the invitation. I'm sorry. Um, there was no money changing hands. Con artists are not people as we understand people to be. They don't have a soul con artists. And again, so many people say, well, if they [01:11:30] use their skills for good, they could go so far.

Jonathan Walton: Absolutely they could. But they love the con con artists. True con artists get a godlike sense of delight and pleasure from creating worlds that do not exist from, from, you know, shooting this movie that we don't even know is being shot. We're cast as actors, victims, unwitting, and we're doing what they want us to do, saying what they want us to say. They got us all on their strings. They're the puppet master. They love that. It brings them joy. It [01:12:00] thrills them. Like when I go on a roller coaster and go down, that thrills me. That's my thrill. But a con artist has a different thrill. So in a lot of con cases and a lot of con artists, not every con is about money. Some are just for fun. They love it. You know, like people play golf. It's their golf game. That's right. They love it. And you know, they don't have any real friends. They don't have anyone. They can tell, hey, look what I got this lady to do. It's [01:12:30] just themselves, right? I don't believe they have a soul.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. Um, I want to ask you something else. You you talk a lot about how much you had to work at getting your getting the authorities to just take up your case. And why do you think. Why do you think that is? Why are they so unwilling or unable to help? Is it just the. Because they just have [01:13:00] different priorities, like people losing money? Yes, that's tragic and that can ruin people's lives. But there's all this other stuff that's going on too, and it's just it's just a matter of, I don't know, law enforcement priorities or like what? What's your what's your sense of that piece of it?

Jonathan Walton: I have evolved over the years since I got involved in this when when I was the victim, without experience, I thought they just didn't care. I thought, they're cold, they don't care. Like, fuck them. That's what I thought. [01:13:30] But having investigated so many cases and forged friendships with investigators and police officers and FBI agents, I know that they do care. The problem is they're overwhelmed. They're overwhelmed. You know, um, and, and that they're, they're dealing in murders and rapes and, you know, people are bleeding and they need help, and those cases take precedence. You know, it's not intentional. It's just those are the ones screaming for attention. So nobody tells the victim what I tell the victim again and again [01:14:00] in the book, the onus is on you to make your case. The onus is on you to do the legwork. And the last two chapters of my book I teach people, if you've been scammed, here's here's what I did, here's what worked for me. Um, you know, it turns out that pitching a criminal case to police is like pitching a television show to a network executive, right? You got to make it sexy. You gotta. You got to have a beginning, middle and an end. You got to be the protagonist. You got to have tons of evidence. You can't just go to police like a lot of victims [01:14:30] do, because they don't know any better. I got scammed and they're crying, and they did this to me. And like, that turns police off?

Caleb Newquist: Sure.

Jonathan Walton: You know, they're going to tell you I'm sorry, but it's, You know, it's not a crime. Go sue them. You can sue them. You're not dead. You're not bleeding. You're okay. You'll live another day. Go sue them. So before you go to police, you got to build a case. Your own case. You got to get witness statements. You got to make an affidavit. You got to print out all the evidence you have. You got to. You got to present it. Like, think of it like you're [01:15:00] doing a a college presentation speech class. And for 20 minutes you're going to go and riff and, and have your evidence Vanna White, Wheel of Fortune style. You know, that impresses them. So, so many cases. I'll investigate. The victim calls me like police turn me away. I'm like, let me help you prepare. And we're going to go back to police. And I'll be on speakerphone and they take the report, because you got to show the cop that you're a worthy victim. And it sounds bad, but it's true. You gotta [01:15:30] you got to give them something. You got to do their work. Yeah. Or what you consider to be their work, but they don't. Yeah. You got to give them something easy to understand, right?

Caleb Newquist: Let me ask you this as kind of a follow up in the event. And like you say, there are you have you give you make recommendations for how people approach this in the book. But is it ever make sense that if law enforcement is unable or unwilling to help? Does does going to a journalist make sense for people?

Jonathan Walton: Absolutely. [01:16:00] And I recommend that. And that that helped my case. You know, um, publicity is like Kryptonite to con artists. Yeah. You know, it hampers their ability to scan, because what people forget is a professional con artist of which there are millions walking around today. The only reason we are talking about Mayor Smith is because I outed her. Why me? She scammed dozens and dozens and dozens of people over the past 40 years. I had [01:16:30] to out her, but yeah, I did. I tell you that to tell you this. She's not an anomaly. There are so many of her walking around. There's so many people getting scammed and quietly slinking away. You know, it's the most underreported crime in the world right now because of the tricks they get to keep you quiet. Yeah, I'll tell you a story. My own mother, who got scammed by a professional con artist who was a family friend. I had no idea this [01:17:00] family friend was a con artist. My mom never told anyone this story until I went public. She told me. You remember this woman? Well, she scammed me out of 20 grand, and I.

Jonathan Walton: I talked to other people who knew her. She scammed them. She scammed them, she said. So my mom's telling me the story of this woman who masqueraded as a family friend, waved all the red flags, scammed my mom, scammed everyone in my mom's social circle. No one talked about it and the woman moved away because it's another red flag I write about in the book. Con artists move around a lot. They have to. Most of [01:17:30] us will have 11 addresses total in our lifetime. Mayer had 46 when I met her 46. Like they move around a lot. That's another red flag. So any one of the red flags I write about aren't necessarily a sign you're dealing with a con artist. But as they start to compound, if there are two red flags or 3 or 4, yeah, you're dealing with a professional. These are the tricks they're using. Don't fall for them and I will I got the best. You know the publisher has been sending out copies. They sent you a copy?

Caleb Newquist: Yep.

Jonathan Walton: And, [01:18:00] um, I got the best email I ever received in my life from this college professor who thanked me profusely. She said, when you after seeing how all these things are laid out in your story, I was able to see the person in my life doing this to me and you saved me. I was about to give them money, but they did all the same things and now I'm never talking to them again. Like I prevented her from getting scammed. And that's when I knew I'm in the right place at the right time [01:18:30] doing the right thing. I think this book will out thousands of con artists. I think this book will prevent thousands of people from getting scammed because it's similar to Times Square. If you're standing in Times Square in New York City, you're just awash with thousands of people passing. You don't really notice anyone, right? But if I tell you, look for the guy with the brown hat and glasses, you can spot that effer from 100ft away. Oh, there's the brown hat, I [01:19:00] see it, I see it in the sea of 10,000, I see it. That's what these red flags are. It's the brown hat in the crowd when I pointed out they're too kind, too quick. Um, and then the drama starts. They create a lot of drama. They isolate you, they convince you they're better than you. They use technology to sell their story. They introduce an element of scarcity. You have to act fast. There's an emergency. They do the beak wetting. They'll have a good day job. They move around a lot. They'll tell you stories from faraway places. They have the TMI technique to to to buy your silence. And you don't [01:19:30] know you're falling for it as you reveal your deep secrets to them because they reveal their deep secrets to you, but theirs are fake. They use these techniques work, and they're all using them. When I point them out. You'll know when they're happening and you'll say, no, I'm not. I'm never talking to this bitch again. Walking away, walking away. Good.

Caleb Newquist: There you go. Jonathan Walton, that was super fun. Uh. Great guy. What fun, what fun [01:20:00] talking to him. So get the book. Get it for a friend, a relative, whoever you think might need a book like that. Anatomy of a Con Artist. Again, link is in the show notes wherever you get books. It's hot off the press. Um, as far as, like, learnings, I think the one thing you know, everything that I think, you know, like because we hadn't talked to a victim before, um, so I think everything was pretty new. A lot of stuff sounded familiar, but like, Jonathan's like first person story as [01:20:30] a victim of fraud I thought was really great. And one thing that we haven't talked maybe explicitly about before, but I asked him about, which is, you know, I think lots of people probably have the experience of, uh, difficulties getting law enforcement to, uh, take their case seriously. And Jonathan talked about his example. And I think he's probably right. The reason, uh, [01:21:00] law enforcement maybe doesn't take every case seriously is because it's impossible. They are overwhelmed with work, and to do every single one is literally impossible. And so it can be disheartening. I, I imagine for many people who go to law enforcement with a story of, uh, being defrauded and they don't seem willing or able to help.

Caleb Newquist: And I think the next best, best thing you can do, because I think law enforcement is [01:21:30] where people should take those situations. Or they they should they should take those, uh, instances to law enforcement. But if they're not having luck, um, talk to a journalist in your area, talk to a local journalist. Now, if you live in New York City, I don't think you should necessarily call the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal unless you've got something exceptionally good. Uh, but chances are, if you try to get in touch with one of those people, [01:22:00] you're probably not going to get a call back. So, yeah, contact your local journalists. We have countless stories in this podcast about local journalists who are breaking the news stories of fraud in their communities. To that immediately come to mind are, uh, the monkey business at the Columbus Zoo. That was the Columbus Dispatch. And then also the most recent one, um, [01:22:30] the, the bank in New Orleans. Uh, NBC bank, first NBC bank in New Orleans. Uh, that was also, um, doggedly reported on by, uh, the local journalists in New Orleans. So, yeah, those people can do the work. And if you got a local business and you've got a story and it impacts that community and law enforcement is unable to help, then talk to some journalists [01:23:00] because they can they'll check things out.

Caleb Newquist: So anyway, yeah, and again, I've said it before, support your local journalism so that they can and are able to do that kind of work. Okay. All right. Enough. I know you're probably pretty tired of that. Okay. So that is it for this episode. And remember, if your friend is moonlighting as a psychologist and a satanic high priestess, [01:23:30] maybe. Maybe keep an eye on your wallet. Definitely don't have sex with that person. Definitely. Like the psychology and then the Satanism. I don't know, that seems like too much. But yeah, and also keep an eye on your wallet. Probably. Okay. All right. If you want to drop us a line, send us an email at. Oh, my. Fraud at earmarks. Com. Oh, my fraud is created, written, produced and hosted by me Caleb Newquist Zach Frank is my co producer, audio engineer, and music supervisor. [01:24:00] Laura Hobbs designed our logo rate review and subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. If you listen on your mark, you can earn some CPE if that's the thing you need. Join us next time for more avarice, swindlers and scams from stories that will make you say oh my fraud!