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True American: Doctor Neil Gallagher is a premier true American with integrity in all his pursuits. His key goal is to help others take responsibility for their financial future. His life's passion is to help people retire safe, early and happy. Steeped in [00:00:30] history. Doctor Neil Gallagher earned his PhD from Brown University. He received his financial license and began working as a broker with firms in New York and Saint Louis. Shortly after this period, Doctor Gallagher determined that the financial world of selling stocks and bonds, mutual funds, CDs and Moors was not effectively educating the public. Doctor Gallagher says after all, well laid out plans put financial decisions where they belong in your hands.

Earmark CPE: If [00:01:00] you'd like to earn CPE credit for listening to this episode, visit earmark CPE, download the app, take a short quiz, and get your CPE certificate. Continuing education has never been so easy. And now on to the episode.

Caleb Newquist: This [00:01:30] is on My Fraud, a true crime podcast where the only thing holier than thou are the holes in victim's bank accounts. I'm Caleb Newquist. Hey, how's it going? Um, I I'm I'm mostly fine. I hope you're doing well. Um, yeah. I'm I can't complain. Uh, I'm still proving to be pretty useful. Uh, for example, I opened a jar of pickles the other day, and it was kind of an old jar of pickles. And I had [00:02:00] no problems with it. So, um, as long as everyone in my house likes pickles of one kind or another, I am still earning my keep, I'm happy to say. And no, I do not immediately run them under hot water. I do not tap the lid with a wooden spoon. This is pure elbow grease, people. The only time I go for the cheats is when you need, uh. You know, the obscure jar of jam open that is, you know, from pre-pandemic times. Oh, the blood orange marmalade. You know, that's, you [00:02:30] know, the jaws of life. Couldn't open that thing. Anyway, thanks to everyone who rates the show on Apple or Spotify or earmark or wherever. And the reviews, of course. We appreciate those. Uh, I also get lots of emails, as I've mentioned. Some are suggestions for episodes or comments on episodes, and we love those. Uh, but I got a really unique one here that we got recently, and I thought I would read it because it's it's very interesting. And this person asked me to keep them anonymous. [00:03:00] So of course I will honor that request. And it reads I have committed fraud and this podcast is a lifesaver.

Caleb Newquist: I have borderline personality disorder, and one of the ways that I self-sabotage was through shoplifting. I always knew there was a chance of getting caught, but I couldn't stop myself. One day, it finally escalated to the point that I reallocated a small amount of funds to myself from a low balance account that I was sure the business I worked for had forgotten about. What you [00:03:30] all talk about is true. I had the means, motive, and opportunity. There were no internal controls and everyone trusted me because I was good at my job. Luckily, the guilt was so overwhelming that I returned the money as soon as possible and after talking to my therapist, admitted my wrongdoing to the company. I was let go. But thankfully, because I made things right and reported myself immediately they didn't press charges. I knew I needed to ensure I never made that decision again, but I didn't know how. As I said, my BPD manifests in self-sabotaging [00:04:00] behavior and it certainly isn't rational. Then I discovered this podcast and it saved me from a lifetime of temptation and misery. After listening to dozens of episodes, I know that I don't want to constantly cover my tracks, never go on vacation, and always fear the day I'll get caught. The guilt and shame I felt after my first time were enough to know that I don't want to face the consequences and humiliation that major fraud brings. The best antidote was an episode where you discussed the varieties and nuances of fraud that I had never considered. [00:04:30]

Caleb Newquist: I've learned that honesty and transparency are the best ways to avoid the slippery slope to fraud, and I've decided that, at least for now, I shouldn't be in a position where I manage money and to make sure internal controls are in place for my and the business's well-being if I ever do. I guess you stopped fraud in its tracks. So there you go. Let it never be said that this podcast is only good for earning CPE or making the laundry slightly more bearable. We have our first piece of anecdotal, [00:05:00] unconfirmed evidence that oh my fraud prevented a fraud, or maybe even multiple frauds. You, uh, you live to see the day, my friends. So there you go. Anyway, if you have listened to this podcast and scuttled your plans to commit a brazen fraud, email me at OMG fraud. Com and tell me all about it. And just a reminder that Greg Kite and I will be presenting at the new Jersey society of CPAs Convention and Expo on June 5th in Atlantic City. So if [00:05:30] you catch that, if you want to catch that, get yourself to Atlantic City in June. There's a link to the new Jersey shows page in the show notes. And if your organization or conference needs a live presentation on fraud or ethics, or you need a webinar on those topics, then that's how you get Greg and I in the same room, Virtually or otherwise. Not that we're not speaking, it's just that that will get us in the same room. That's how you do it. That's the easiest way to do it.

Caleb Newquist: Email. Oh my. Fraud at earmarks. Com to get more [00:06:00] information on pricing and availability. Okay, that's all the business. Let's get into our story. William Neil Gallagher was born in New York City in January 1941. His mother, Rita, was a phone operator during World War Two and his father was a fireman. Gallagher [00:06:30] also had an older brother, but after his father abandoned the family, his mother moved he and his brother to Massachusetts, where she grew up. She remarried when she was there and had another son. Gallagher's stepfather was a diabetic and a drinker who died when Gallagher was 15. After graduating from Rhode Island College, Gallagher joined the Peace Corps and while teaching English in Thailand, met an American missionary, [00:07:00] which eventually led to Gallagher becoming a devout Christian. When he returned to the United States, Gallagher moved to Texas, studied to be a preacher, got married, and eventually earned master's degrees in religion and philosophy. Eventually, he enrolled at Brown University to earn a Ph.D. in philosophy. His thesis title, The Concept of Blame. But after completing his PhD, Gallagher [00:07:30] struggled to find a job in academia. He chalked it up to affirmative action because. Yeah, sure. Okay. Anyway, Gallagher and his family ended up moving to Mississippi, where he worked at a Christian nonprofit called The American Family Association. And then on to Memphis, where he worked as a securities broker for Dean Witter Reynolds and then A.G. Edwards. It was his experience working for these big brokers. [00:08:00] Dean Witter later became part of Morgan Stanley, and A.G. Edwards later became part of Wells Fargo.

Caleb Newquist: It was that experience that drove him to start his own firm, Gallagher Financial Group, in 1993. Shortly after that, Gallagher started showing up on Christian radio, hosting a show several times a week on his show. Gallagher referred to himself as the money doctor or doc for short, which, okay, [00:08:30] you know, he has a PhD, but as I just said, it was not a PhD in personal finance or wealth management. Still, he went by doc on a show that he hosted where he gave personal finance advice Gallagher would cover, you know, more or less standard personal finance topics, but it also featured a heavy dose of proselytizing, his faith, self-promotional blather and good old fashioned scare [00:09:00] mongering. Bloomberg reported that Gallagher issued alarmist warnings about market instability, government meddling and the greed of big city elites following economic meltdowns. He said retirees who'd placed their faith in major brokerages had to stand in lines to get surplus cheese and bread. He claimed his own clients lost nothing. We've [00:09:30] talked about marketing on this show a couple of times. Marketing, as you may know, or if I'm being honest and somewhat cynical, uh, is is someone trying to get you interested in buying something or put another way, someone trying to sell you something. It's some. It's someone trying to sell you something. Now, in any society where you have somebody who wants to sell something and someone else wants to buy something, [00:10:00] there's going to be marketing, right? Like in a very crude system, this is like the fishmonger at the local market bragging about how fresh their fish is.

Caleb Newquist: Fresh fish. Fresh fish. You're never gonna get fresher fish than this. Step right up.

Caleb Newquist: That's you know, that's marketing kind of. But in a capitalist system like America's, however, marketing is like a whole thing. It's a field. It's a career. Colleges teach about very [00:10:30] sophisticated methods of how you get people interested in a thing so that you will later buy this thing. And marketing methods kind of run the gamut. Part of the reason for this is that all kinds of people buy goods and services for all kinds of different reasons. And one effective method of getting people to buy goods and services is when a person sees a product, service or business that shares their quote unquote, values. [00:11:00] In America, you can frequently see this done through Christian marketing. And if you're not familiar with that concept, it's just what it sounds like marketing that uses Christianity to appeal to potential customers. Now, this is a little hilarious because, as you may or may not know, there's a story about the cleansing of the temple. This is when Jesus was in Jerusalem for Passover, and he got pissed off because he saw a bunch of merchants [00:11:30] in the courtyard at the temple. And so he chased off the livestock and turned over the tables and dumped out people's money, you know. Et cetera. Et cetera. Gave everybody a good scolding. And in the book, even in the book of John, it says he used a scourge, which is like a nasty, a nasty, like octopus looking whip.

Caleb Newquist: And, uh, and if you, if you find a, you know, if you see a Renaissance era painting depicting this scene, he's holding a scourge in, like, every single one of them. Anyway, [00:12:00] you'd think that hardcore capitalism and Christianity would be in conflict, right? But no, this is America where anything is possible, especially with God, right? So Christian marketing is a thing. How common or how big it is is is kind of hard to pin down. But suffice to say, you you see it all over the place. You know, bookstores, moving companies. There's a whole film and TV industry around Christianity. Now, the point [00:12:30] is, there are lots of people in this country who identify as Christian, and a lot of those people are susceptible Table two. Christian marketing. Now, don't. Don't misunderstand. I can feel it. I can feel it. This is not a criticism. It's just a fact. We're all susceptible to marketing of some kind. Something might look cool. We're susceptible to the coolness factor or the sex factor or the big, big discounts. For some people, a shared faith is the [00:13:00] critical factor. They can look at a billboard or a storefront or the side of a truck and see John 316, or a cross, or hear say something like, today is the day that the Lord hath made, and they're ready to buy whatever that person is selling. For a certain type of person.

Caleb Newquist: There were many things to like about Doc Gallagher as as someone who could potentially help you with your money. One [00:13:30] of the appealing things about Doc Gallagher was that he presented himself as a former insider, someone who had worked at Wall Street firms had served very wealthy clients, but was now taking those elite credentials to work for regular people. We don't work for Los Angeles or Chicago. He would say, but because he had been in that elite world, he knew people. He used photo ops in his marketing. That [00:14:00] included him with Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan, megachurch pastor Joel Osteen, politicians like former Texas Governor Rick Perry and former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, among other people. Something else that Gallagher called attention to was his PhD. As I mentioned earlier, he fashioned himself dock, which, just for the record, and maybe I've said this before, but I do not, as a general rule, trust people who give themselves nicknames. Nevertheless, [00:14:30] the perception he was creating was that one. He was a folksy everyman, but also highly educated and intellectual. He had authored multiple books, including titles such as The Money Doctor's Guide to Taking Care of Yourself, When No One Else Will, and Jesus Christ, Money Master. Yes. Then there was the Jesus. Yes. Gallagher's frequent religious overtures gave [00:15:00] many in his audience comfort. He cared. He was trustworthy. He was a man of character, a man of God, they would say.

Caleb Newquist: This endeared him deeply with his clients. He would visit clients at their homes, have dinner with them. He would pray with them, send them gifts. Overall, Doc Gallagher's message was that he wanted to empower people to take responsibility for their financial success with less government, more [00:15:30] personal responsibility, and with the help of God, he would say, we can make a better world. On his radio programs, Doc Gallagher offered listeners a free in-person meeting with him. In those meetings, he would encourage his prospects to open an account with Gallagher Financial Group and invest in his diversified Growth [00:16:00] and Income Strategy Account, or DGI, for short. In the materials that he would provide in these meetings, Gallagher stated that he was, quote, fully licensed and a wealth manager and an independent advisor. Gallagher Financial Group promised to focus on providing clients with the highest quality of asset management services. As for what was in the Diversified Growth and Income strategy account, Gallagher's documents [00:16:30] listed five different asset classes that he would invest in. Us treasuries. Publicly traded stock. Fixed index annuities. Life settlements and mutual funds. Now, uh, you may have heard that list of investments and thought nothing fancy. And you would be right. There is nothing special there. And yet he told his clients that DGI accounts would, quote, generate guaranteed minimum returns ranging from [00:17:00] 5 to 8% annually without risk to investor's principal.

Caleb Newquist: The materials also contained conspicuous phrases like GFG provides guarantees for lifetime growth and lifetime income. When the markets get smashed, our clients lost nothing. Profits are protected. Risk free income. As for how Gallagher made his money, he told some of his clients that he would receive 1% of the gains [00:17:30] in their accounts, which, quote, would leave enough left over to pay investors their promised returns. And yet, he told other clients that he would be paid commissions by, quote, the firms from whom he purchases assets, end of quote, on their behalf. Almost all of Gallagher's clients were individuals, people who rolled their individual retirement accounts and 401 (K) s over to his control. On another page of the materials he gave clients, Gallagher wrote, quote, in many ways, [00:18:00] when you hire me, it's like hiring a master captain for your ship. It's your ship so you can come up to the bridge anytime, but don't touch anything. It's my job to get you safely through the storms and into port. In 2015, Steve Richardson, an investigator with the Texas Department of Insurance, got [00:18:30] a call from an investigator with Allianz Life Insurance Company. The Allianz investigator told Richardson that the company had gotten numerous requests from a William Neil Gallagher to make withdrawals from annuity investments on his client's behalf. In one case, early withdrawals would have triggered large penalties. A relative of the client who had power of attorney for the account told aligns that he had not authorized the withdrawals.

Caleb Newquist: As [00:19:00] a result, Alliance didn't release any funds to Gallagher. The whole situation struck Richardson as strange. So he opened an investigation into Gallagher, starting with subpoenas of his bank records, and what he saw immediately got his attention. Bloomberg reported that the records showed several large deposits that were each followed by a few dozen withdrawals, often cashier's checks made out to Gallagher Financial Group clients. End of quote. And [00:19:30] then quote. Many of those checks were then redeposited into the same account. End of quote. So let's review that step by step, just in case you didn't follow. Large deposits into Gallagher's accounts. These are these are big deposits of money collected from new clients, followed by dozens of withdrawals that were usually cashier's checks made out to Gallagher's clients. These are the [00:20:00] returns that Gallagher had promised his previous clients. That's followed by cashier's checks, then being redeposited into Gallagher's account. This is Gallagher's clients taking their gains and putting them back with him. Pair that with the fact that there is no placement of the funds into any kind of investment. Not a stock, not an index fund, not an Elvis Presley commemorative plate collection. And Steve [00:20:30] Richardson concluded that he was looking at a lot of evidence of one thing a Ponzi scheme. When Richardson started interviewing Gallagher's clients, he found that many of them had a lot of characteristics in common.

Caleb Newquist: Many were senior citizens. Many, virtually all really were observant Christians, and many had received returns or dividend payments from Gallagher. As [00:21:00] you might expect, none of the people Richardson talked to had a bad word to say about Gallagher. Bloomberg reported that they would respond to Richardson's questions with, quote, why are you asking this? Gallagher's a good man. Gallagher's a man of God. And because Gallagher constantly warned his clients and listeners about overreach by regulators. These people told Gallagher about Richardson's visits. Richardson said to Bloomberg, [00:21:30] quote, traditionally in investigations, someone's upset. At this point, I don't have anyone who's upset. Richardson's case went nowhere for more than two years. Then in 2018, he was contacted by a detective from Hurst, Texas, named Jim Hobbs. Hobbs had experience with Elder Fraud and [00:22:00] knew that in cases like these, many times, victims wouldn't come forward out of embarrassment, but also because they believe their families would, quote, take control of their finances, take away their freedom. Hobbs told Richardson about a complaint he had received from James and Carol Herman. The Hermans had become clients of Gallagher's in 2015 after hearing him on the radio. After meeting with him, they rolled their 401 (K) accounts over to him, totaling [00:22:30] nearly $700,000. Then in 2017, when Carol retired from being a nurse due to an injury, the Hermans told Gallagher that they would need to double their monthly withdrawals.

Caleb Newquist: But doc had another idea. He thought James and Carol should take out a reverse mortgage on their house, based on the equity in their home. The Hermans were not interested in that idea, and when Carol called Gallagher shortly after that meeting to request a $100,000 withdrawal, [00:23:00] he continued to resist. Quote. Every time I would call and ask questions, he'd send flowers, candy, a fruit basket. He told us that he wanted to send us on a trip to the Holy Land. The Hermans were finally able to pin Gallagher down and wrestle $100,000 out of him. And remember, this is their money. To make matters only slightly worse, he couldn't provide detailed information about their account. That's when the Hermans contacted Detective Hobbs. [00:23:30] Hobbs and Richardson worked with the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Texas State Securities Board, as well as prosecutors in Dallas and Tarrant counties to build the case against Gallagher. Almost everyone they talked to about Gallagher had an identical story. By March of 2019, there was a mountain of evidence of fraud perpetrated by Gallagher, and the SEC filed its complaint against him on March 7th. It accused Doc Gallagher, the man of God, that so many people trusted with [00:24:00] orchestrating a $20 million Ponzi scheme. The SEC complaint was unsparing. Gallagher had brought in between 20 million and $30 million in deposits since at least 2014, but as of January 31st, 2019, the accounts he controlled through the Gallagher Financial Group and related entities only had about $821,000 [00:24:30] in it and $500,000 had been raised in that very month.

Caleb Newquist: He was soon charged criminally with securities fraud and money laundering in Dallas County and later Tarrant County. His bail was set at $1 million. One thing that became clear as details of the investigation began to come out is that there were plenty of warning signs about Doc Gallagher. For example, although he had passed his series seven, 24 and [00:25:00] 63 exams, these all allowed him to be a securities rep, a principal, an agent, respectively, and he had been affiliated with various registered broker dealers. He had not been associated with any registered broker since 2001, and had not been associated with a registered investment advisor since 2009. Also, the SEC's complaint revealed that Gallagher had been reprimanded by the Texas State Securities Board for, quote, engaging in fraudulent business practices, including [00:25:30] falsifying check receipt books and falsely advertising that he was a registered investment adviser in 1999. Likewise, none of Gallagher's entities. Gallagher Financial Group and W Neil Gallagher PhD agency, Inc. were registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission. This was all publicly reported as early as 2009, when D magazine reported on the Money doctor's quote, bad checkup. This was ten years before he was charged [00:26:00] by the SEC or Dallas and Fort Worth authorities. And then there was Gallagher's overall vibe.

Caleb Newquist: Gallagher was known to be gregarious and outgoing, and he was well liked by many of his clients, many of whom, as we've established, are older married couples in multiple accounts. There were husbands who liked doc well enough, although they all seemed to admit that he was a bit of a blowhard while their wives did not care for him one bit. Gallagher, [00:26:30] that is. I don't know how they felt about their husbands. But anyway, in one instance from the Perfect Scam podcast, a victim said, quote, I had misgivings about doc from the beginning. Call it female intuition, call it whatever. But I do not like a man who likes to put his hands on my shoulders or around my waist. Doc did things like that and I didn't like it. Another of the wives had seen Gallagher's Cadillac, with, quote papers strewn [00:27:00] all over the place and so much clutter, which she took as a bad sign for someone who was supposed to be, you know, taking care of people's money. Not to mention that investigators did not find any evidence of an accounting system, something Gallagher's own employees confirmed. Likewise, Gallagher's office didn't give anyone much comfort when the court appointed receiver, a lawyer by the name of Kurt Thomas went to Gallagher's main office. He found it in complete [00:27:30] disarray, including a decade's worth of unopened mail. Then there was the money.

Caleb Newquist: Yeah. So what about. What about the money? Where's the money? Uh, you may be surprised to learn that Gallagher, unlike many of his Ponzi brethren, did not live lavishly. Bloomberg described him having a, quote, handsome but unflashy suburban home and a lake house in need of updating. A lot of the money [00:28:00] had been used to buy airtime on radio stations. Kurt Thomas was able to recover $6 million from those stations, along with small sums from vendors and nonprofits. Thomas also tracks the money to an investment by Gallagher in a, quote, fraudulent gold mining company and also another business called Hover Link, which, quote, first purported to be a recreational hovercraft business and [00:28:30] later a maker of sci fi style body armor and miracle cancer drugs. In the course of his investigation, Thomas also discovered that Gallagher had a secret office that contained a 2,400 pound safe. What was so important that Gallagher needed a safe of that size? No one knows when the safe was cracked. There was nothing in it except a paper list of gold and silver items. So where did the money go? [00:29:00] It turns out Gallagher had another secret. A lot of the money went to a woman named Deborah Mae Carter. She and Gallagher first met at A.G. Edwards, and then she later worked for him, and then later still at Daystar Television Network, a Christian channel that [00:29:30] emphasizes the prosperity gospel.

Caleb Newquist: Gallagher's wife, Gail, had told Court Thomas about Carter, saying that she had hired a private investigator and claimed that Gallagher and Carter had carried on an affair for over a decade, which is something Gallagher later acknowledged. Gallagher and Carter had accounts at the same bank. One of the accounts Carter controlled was in her daughter's name. Gallagher would deposit [00:30:00] cashier's checks into that account, and then Carter would transfer the money from the nominal account to her own personal account. In a deposition, one of the bank's employees questioned Carter about the activity, and that resulted in him getting yelled at by Gallagher, who also threatened to get him fired. Quote. Then he said a few curse words and hung up. Court. Thomas, the court appointed receiver, found that more payments were being made to [00:30:30] LLCs controlled by Carter and mortgages connected to her. Much of this money was going to buy rural properties outside of Fort Worth, including a 1096 acre ranch. Bloomberg reported that Gallagher wrote a note to Carter from prison that read, what they are looking for is presumably millions of dollars. I transfer to other people to hide my assets. Didn't happen. The 40 K I sent you was to buy land for the eventual construction [00:31:00] of a free senior wellness center for my clients, remember? Funny thing about that, there were no records found that suggested that this was a plan at all. Carter received at least $1.5 million from Gallagher, according to the receiver's calculations.

Caleb Newquist: When Detective Jim Hobbs went to arrest Deborah Carter, she was, quote, standing in the front yard in her pajamas. She told Hobbs where he and his team could find a stash of gold [00:31:30] and silver that included South African Krugerrands Krugerrands sure, Krugerrands, Royal Canadian Mint leaf bars, sunshine bars, and President Trump coins with a total estimated value of as much as $300,000. Hobbs told Bloomberg, quote, she answered all my questions except whether she was having an affair with doc. For that question, she answered, quote, I plead the fifth. In [00:32:00] other words, she told them where the gold and silver loot was hidden, gave back the $2.8 million ranch she bought, all but admitting her involvement. But she didn't want to admit that she was banging her coconspirator. This is hilarious and incredible. Um, yeah. Carter was indicted for theft, money laundering, and exploitation [00:32:30] of the elderly. A jury found her guilty of money laundering and sentenced her to life in prison in July 2024. On March 27th, 2020, Doc Gallagher was sentenced to 25 years in prison and ordered to pay $10.3 million in restitution after pleading guilty to charges of securities fraud and money laundering. Then, in November 2021, after pleading guilty to further criminal charges, a Tarrant County judge sentenced him to three life sentences. When Bloomberg reporter Chris [00:33:00] Pomorski visited Gallagher in prison, the convicted Ponzi schemer tried to rationalize his actions.

Caleb Newquist: He hated that he was being called the Madoff of North Texas, and that he was borrowing the money to give to worthy causes like the North Texas Food Bank and the Alzheimer's Association. He later wrote to Pomorski and said he and Carter were buying up land around Dallas Fort Worth. Quote. I jumped at the chance to buy that real estate, believing it would double in a very, very short time, allowing [00:33:30] me to pay back substantial sums to clients. And then there was the money he had invested in Hovertank. That hovercraft turned cancer cure turned body armor business. Gallagher said he was planning to make $10 million on the investment. And that's how he was going to pay everybody back. But in the end, Hover Link was just a shell company, a shell company whose CEO was Deborah May Carter. As for [00:34:00] the victims, the court appointed receiver Court Thomas is still working on recovering funds. There's an entire website dedicated to the Gallagher Financial Group receivership. A recent entry from January 29th, 2025 links to the receiver's most recent report that details its activities. So far, it has distributed $6.6 million back to Gallagher's investors. That comes to about 20% of the total he stole. Also, at the very top of the receiver's website is a short note. It [00:34:30] reads, we have received information that one or more individuals purporting to be an FBI agent have been asking individuals for their account numbers, Social Security numbers, and bank account information.

Caleb Newquist: This is a scam. Please do not disclose your Social Security numbers or bank account information to anyone via email. All right, so what did we learn? Um, [00:35:00] I think a lot of this stuff isn't new. Uh, this this was an affinity fraud. So, yeah, faith stuff is a big deal in many fraud cases. Uh, go back to episode 11, when we did an entire episode about various religious themed frauds. Um, these are situations where people are just more likely to trust someone who shares their belief for right or wrong. Um, [00:35:30] of course, the question that they aren't asking themselves is yes, they may share your beliefs, but are they trustworthy? Turns out that those things aren't always the same thing. Um, like, it was so interesting reading about Gallagher. Who? You you you kind of have to. You like you would read these things and you'd be like, yeah, he he's got to be a he's got to be a Christian like he, he believes he believes these things [00:36:00] he's saying. And he probably, you know, he's praying with people. Like there was one account of him like, you know, visiting a client in the hospital who'd had some major surgery, like they and they all prayed together. And I'm just like, ooh, it takes a it would take just like a totally cold blooded dude.

Caleb Newquist: And maybe this is Gallagher, but I don't know. It's just like, I don't know, to fake your way through all that is just kind of. I don't know, it's just. I don't know how somebody can live like that. Maybe this guy was, but, like, being, like, considering yourself a Christian and [00:36:30] actually being a trustworthy person, I think those are kind of mutually exclusive things. Like they don't they don't go hand in hand. So that's that. That is the trouble with, I think these affinity frauds, they want to believe this guy. They trust him. They don't feel like they have to. There's there's no reason to question his motives. You know, they don't need to verify anything. And that was part of it too, right? Where he was holding himself out as this registered investment advisor and was licensed and all this stuff. And in fact, he wasn't. And he had been he had [00:37:00] been in trouble in the past for doing some sketchy things, and nobody cared to check up on it because he was a man of God. Now, the other thing that we've talked about a lot is the Ponzi scheme stuff. Guaranteed returns, no risk investments. He was saying 5 to 8%. So something that's very enticing about that is he was he was promising guaranteed returns, [00:37:30] but they were very modest returns. Like he wasn't like in some cases you see these Ponzi schemes and they're promising 20% returns, 25%, just like, like very good returns year after year after year, which is impossible to do when you see 5 to 8%.

Caleb Newquist: There's nothing that really kind of grabs you about that, where you're like, wow, like, this guy must be a genius. He's like, no, he's just like steady, you know, just just enough that you're like, I'd take 5% on my money every year. That is a very enticing thing. And it doesn't necessarily [00:38:00] catch people's attention like returns of 15, 20, 25%. So also it was it was mentioned to me by my producer, Zach that, uh, Gallagher, uh, is inherently a name that I'm sorry Gallagher's in the audience, but that it cannot be trusted. Uh, if you ever watched shameless, a Showtime program starring William H. Macy, they were Gallaghers and some of the worst people that you could ever, you know, come across, especially William H. Macy's character. [00:38:30] He was especially bad. Um, anyway, so sorry. Gallagher's. Um, finally, the aura of a guru is something that I don't know. It grosses me out. But, you know, people are susceptible to those things. And again, that's not a criticism of anyone. Um, I think that's just a fact. Uh, we're all susceptible to being kind of transfixed by someone we admire or think highly of. So, you [00:39:00] know, watch out for those people.

Caleb Newquist: They're they're weirdos. And sometimes they steal your money. Lots of times they steal your money. Another thing about that gives it that gave Gallagher this cult of personality was again the nickname the Doc. You know, he's fashioning himself as this. Like, I go by doc, everybody calls me doc, call me doc. You can just hear him saying it, right. And. You know, grown men don't need to go by [00:39:30] nicknames, okay? I don't, I don't know, like it's. And he gave himself the nickname. Okay. Again I don't I cannot express just how lame that is. Don't give yourself nicknames. It's bad form. Okay. Okay. If that's. If that's the only thing you take away from this podcast today while you're listening this episode, just don't give yourself a nickname. Okay. All right. Thank you. That is it for this episode. And remember, if you're going to have a coconspirator, [00:40:00] crime will ruin the relationship. Best to keep it sexual. If you have questions, comments, or suggestions for stories, drop me a line at. Oh, fraud. Com or hit me up on LinkedIn. All my fraud is created, written, produced and hosted by me Caleb Newquist. Zach Frank is my co-producer, audio engineer, music supervisor. Laura Hobbs designed our logo. Rate. Review and subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. If you listen on earmark, get some CPE. Join us next time [00:40:30] for more swindlers and scams from stories that will make you say, oh, am I fraud?